Should we sign Trent Murphy?

[Slappy Mc]

On 8/30/2021 at 8:41 AM, turtle28 said:

I realize he wasn’t the greatest edge rusher for us except the year he was suspended for PEDs but, we have zero depth that’s played valuable snaps in an NFL season before.

He’s not a world beater but, he’s not the worst back up DE to have either.

I think we should sign him on a one year deal given the price is right.

[RSkinGM]

Casey Toohill- what does he show to make the 53 ? I think it's just numbers and the position . We need D Es but must be better out there. 

[e16bball]

3 hours ago, Slappy Mc said:

I think the answer to this is located here:

2 hours ago, RSkinGM said:

Casey Toohill- what does he show to make the 53 ? I think it's just numbers and the position . We need D Es but must be better out there. 

Add in Shaka Toney and even James Smith-Williams. I’m a fan of keeping some youth and upside on the roster. I love the idea of developing a talented guy (or even two) at the DE position for future. 

But we’re also trying to win games now. As I said earlier, when you bring in a 39-year-old mercenary (the friendliest mercenary you ever saw, perhaps, but still a mercenary) to play QB for you, and when you’ve got a top 5 defense ready to unleash — you need to be taking steps to maximize your win total.

In this case, I’m deeply uncomfortable with what happens to this defense if the nightmare scenario of Sweat/Young missing time comes to pass. I think they need to shore up the DE3 spot with a guy you can plug and play, and count on for a certain level of performance, if they lose one of the stars. Whether that’s Trent Murphy, I’m not sure. But I’d like to see someone who can be relied upon for consistent production (and who can give them some juice off the bench). 

[Slappy Mc]

4 minutes ago, e16bball said:

I think the answer to this is located here:

Add in Shaka Toney and even James Smith-Williams. I’m a fan of keeping some youth and upside on the roster. I love the idea of developing a talented guy (or even two) at the DE position for future. 

But we’re also trying to win games now. As I said earlier, when you bring in a 39-year-old mercenary (the friendliest mercenary you ever saw, perhaps, but still a mercenary) to play QB for you, and when you’ve got a top 5 defense ready to unleash — you need to be taking steps to maximize your win total.

In this case, I’m deeply uncomfortable with what happens to this defense if the nightmare scenario of Sweat/Young missing time comes to pass. I think they need to shore up the DE3 spot with a guy you can plug and play, and count on for a certain level of performance, if they lose one of the stars. Whether that’s Trent Murphy, I’m not sure. But I’d like to see someone who can be relied upon for consistent production (and who can give them some juice off the bench). 

I think the easiest solution to this scenario is to bump Jon Allen outside to (which ever is missing)DE and run with Matt and DaRon inside. Don't get me wrong, we need pass rushers, but I am more than content with the youth and depth that we have. I think Trent Murphy should be avoided. 

[RSkinGM]

20 minutes ago, e16bball said:

I think the answer to this is located here:

Add in Shaka Toney and even James Smith-Williams. I’m a fan of keeping some youth and upside on the roster. I love the idea of developing a talented guy (or even two) at the DE position for future. 

But we’re also trying to win games now. As I said earlier, when you bring in a 39-year-old mercenary (the friendliest mercenary you ever saw, perhaps, but still a mercenary) to play QB for you, and when you’ve got a top 5 defense ready to unleash — you need to be taking steps to maximize your win total.

In this case, I’m deeply uncomfortable with what happens to this defense if the nightmare scenario of Sweat/Young missing time comes to pass. I think they need to shore up the DE3 spot with a guy you can plug and play, and count on for a certain level of performance, if they lose one of the stars. Whether that’s Trent Murphy, I’m not sure. But I’d like to see someone who can be relied upon for consistent production (and who can give them some juice off the bench). 

[turtle28]

3 hours ago, Slappy Mc said:

I think the easiest solution to this scenario is to bump Jon Allen outside to (which ever is missing)DE and run with Matt and DaRon inside. Don't get me wrong, we need pass rushers, but I am more than content with the youth and depth that we have. I think Trent Murphy should be avoided. 

Trent Murphy is not an awful DE. Yeah, he wasn’t able to replace Brian Orakpo when given a chance but he’s a solid reserve DE who can give us more than the other DEs we have on our roster. I’m pretty sure Shaka Toney would make it to the practice squad if we cut him and signed Murphy and I’d rather have Murphy than Toohill. If someone doesn’t agree with that then I don’t know what they’re looking at.

Moving Jon Allen to LDE/strong side DE is a good option on run downs should we ever need it, but when we go to the nickel and need more of an edge pass rush I wouldn’t want Allen on the field as a 300 pound edge rusher for 50% plus of the game.

Edited September 1, 2021 by turtle28

[Slappy Mc]

51 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Trent Murphy is not an awful DE. Yeah, he wasn’t able to replace Brian Orakpo when given a chance but he’s a solid reserve DE who can give us more than the other DEs we have on our roster. I’m pretty sure Shaka Toney would make it to the practice squad if we cut him and signed Murphy and I’d rather have Murphy than Toohill. If someone doesn’t agree with that then I don’t know what they’re looking at.

Moving Jon Allen to LDE/strong side DE is a good option on run downs should we ever need it, but when we go to the nickel and need more of an edge pass rush I wouldn’t want Allen on the field as a 300 pound edge rusher for 50% plus of the game.

I just don't agree that Murphy offers more upside/production than you could get from Toohill or Toney. 

I think we could both agree that losing either Chase Young or Montez Sweat would be catastrophic for our defense. 

Obviously in nickel situations, you put your best pash rushers out there. IMO you would have a hard time convincing me that Trent Murphy is better at getting to the QB than Jon Allen. However it is not an ideal situation for him to be out wide for an extended time. I would be fine with them going to a 3-3-5 Nickel and using Jamin Davis as an edge rusher too. 

[MikeT14]

Trent Murphy is available (and has been for a while) for a reason. 

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, Slappy Mc said:

I just don't agree that Murphy offers more upside/production than you could get from Toohill or Toney. 

I think we could both agree that losing either Chase Young or Montez Sweat would be catastrophic for our defense. 

Obviously in nickel situations, you put your best pash rushers out there. IMO you would have a hard time convincing me that Trent Murphy is better at getting to the QB than Jon Allen.
 

However it is not an ideal situation for him to be out wide for an extended time. I would be fine with them going to a 3-3-5 Nickel and using Jamin Davis as an edge rusher too. 

Until the day comes when Toney or Toohill can get us 4 or 5 sacks in a season and play stout run D setting a good edge like Murphy can I’ll say he’s a better option than them at this point.

I don’t know how we can say what Jon Allen will be as a 4-3 DE other than a stout run defender because he’s never played anything outside of a 5 technique in college or the pros. So, while Allen can definitely get us a lot pressure & some sacks as an interior DL, that doesn’t mean he had the ability to beat OTs on the edge. Just shifting Allen’s 6 or 8 sacks in 2018 & 2019 to this year or any year should he have to play 4-3 DE isn’t a comparable shift.

Losing Chase or Montez doesn’t have to be catastrophic for our D if we add a good veteran for depth, Murphy is at least a serviceable edge starter which I think makes him a good back up.

I don’t think Jamin Davis has ever had to rush the passer as an edge rusher, even in college, so I don’t know that that would work either. I think him going up against 30 pound OTs would be tough for him to get pressure but, I could be wrong. That’s a question we can’t answer.

[turtle28]

11 hours ago, RSkinGM said:

Casey Toohill- what does he show to make the 53 ? I think it's just numbers and the position . We need D Es but must be better out there. 

Maybe he's a placeholder until we find someone better. Toohill was at least here last year and flashed some, but he doesn’t offer much that I’ve seen.

I will say that Toohill & Toney are the size of LBs 250 & 240, they both cover kicks on special teams. They must like their coverage abilities better than guys like Norris & Kunaszyk.

Edited September 2, 2021 by turtle28

[Woz]

Signing Trent Murphy now would be a mistake.

Signing Trent Murphy on September 14th (start of week 2) when his salary no longer fully guarantees? I could be talked into that.

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, Woz said:

Signing Trent Murphy now would be a mistake.

Signing Trent Murphy on September 14th (start of week 2) when his salary no longer fully guarantees? I could be talked into that.

Ahh. Good point.