Four Tight Ends and all that crap

[KC_Guy]

Much has been made of the Chiefs holding ***keep you breath*** four TE on the roster.
And one site went as far as calling it "pivotal".

BULLCRAP

The team will roll along with Kelce, a blocking TE (Bell?) and MAY BE a third on game day. That would be Gray/Fortson splitting his limited reps between blocking and receiving.

Anyone dreaming of 14 personnel please wake up and tell me where to cut the active roster for the one never called play on game day.

Edited September 7, 2021 by KC_Guy

[onejayhawk]

There is a article on this subject. I'll post it in the General Offense thread.

That said, four TEs is a legit short yardage alignment. You have extra run blocking and even Blake Bell can catch a ball if they forget about him. All four TEs were in for his TD against the Vikings. The video is in the article.

J

Edited September 7, 2021 by onejayhawk

[HolmesPriest]

Just for that, I think we need to run a 5 TE set >:) 

[kingseanjohn]

5 hours ago, KC_Guy said:

Anyone dreaming of 14 personnel please wake up and tell me where to cut the active roster for the one never called play on game day.

Assuming no injuries: Kemp/Fountain, Burton, Blythe, O'Daniel, Harris, Fenton/Baker -- This is 6 when we need to sit 7. Depending on opponent, you could go with the other Kemp/Fountain, LDT, or Niemann.

Fortson or Gray could line up at WR to replace Kemp/Fountain as needed. Bell/Gray could take on the FB role for as little as it's used. Sitting Blythe leaves us with 4 backup OL (1 primary OT, 2 primary IOL, and 1 swing). Sitting DoD and Harris leaves us with 4 LB when we primarily use 2 -- again, assuming no injuries in this exercise. Fenton/Baker are the 5th/6th man. Mathieu could move to CB in an emergency and Watts plays some at S. For that 7th spot, I lean WR since their reps should be easiest to replace. McKinnon could even line up at WR in some spots.

I don't think 4 TE will be the norm, but I do think we'll see it.

[kingseanjohn]

I think the main reason for keeping 4 is to let Gray and Fortson develop another year before being the primary #2/3. Next year Bell is a FA and Fortson is an ERFA. I think we keep Fortson and let Bell walk.

While I do not think it will happen, the Chiefs have an out with Kelce in 2022. As for 2023+, I'm not as sure.

2023 could be Gray and Fortson as the #1/2. But I wouldn't bet on it.

[onejayhawk]

They used the FB extensively in preseason. Burton He seemed to do a good job, which likely explains why he made the team. Still, if Gray develops, Burton is the one I see getting replaced.

[BigTrav]

10 hours ago, KC_Guy said:

Much has been made of the Chiefs holding ***keep you breath*** four TE on the roster.
And one site went as far as calling it "pivotal".

BULLCRAP

The team will roll along with Kelce, a blocking TE (Bell?) and MAY BE a third on game day. That would be Gray/Fortson splitting his limited reps between blocking and receiving.

Anyone dreaming of 14 personnel please wake up and tell me where to cut the active roster for the one never called play on game day.

Yeah, exactly right. 

We abuse the heck out of the 3-1, and it's almost always Kelce, Hill, (other WR, Robinson etc)

" The Chiefs operate out of 3x1 on a regular basis already, especially with tight end Travis Kelce flexed out as the isolated receiver, but they pumped up their 3x1 usage even more against the Titans. At least two-thirds of the offense either had the offense initially lining up in 3x1 or snapping the ball in 3x1 after a shift or motion. The Chiefs were living in those formations." (FO)

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/film-room/2020/film-room-kansas-city-trips

 

 

Edited September 8, 2021 by BigTrav

[onejayhawk]

Two comments on that. First, a playoff game is a poor standard for the regular season, since you are not trying to conserve resources. Second, we had a game specific matchup advantage that the Titans never managed to fully address. 

Reid has always run a lot of two TE sets. Having another receiving threat available to spell Kelce is something I have wanted for years. There is no reason to think that three TE sets will be any different now that we have the personnel for it. It shortens the depth of the routes, but that's an advantage when you want to kill clock. Trust Reid, Bieniemy, and Mahomes to find ways of making it dangerous. 

[KC_Guy]

5 hours ago, onejayhawk said:

Two comments on that. First, a playoff game is a poor standard for the regular season, since you are not trying to conserve resources. Second, we had a game specific matchup advantage that the Titans never managed to fully address. 

Reid has always run a lot of two TE sets. Having another receiving threat available to spell Kelce is something I have wanted for years. There is no reason to think that three TE sets will be any different now that we have the personnel for it. It shortens the depth of the routes, but that's an advantage when you want to kill clock. Trust Reid, Bieniemy, and Mahomes to find ways of making it dangerous. 

I'm fine with even 3 TE sets in short yardage situations. But even having $ TE active on gameday is a strech - and even more so having them all on the field simultaneously.

@kingseanjohnif we see a single 14 personnel snap during the regular season I'm going to by you a beer.

[kingseanjohn]

2 minutes ago, KC_Guy said:

I'm fine with even 3 TE sets in short yardage situations. But even having $ TE active on gameday is a strech - and even more so having them all on the field simultaneously.

@kingseanjohnif we see a single 14 personnel snap during the regular season I'm going to by you a beer.

With our TE, imagine coming out with everyone on the line to block for a single back running play. With our guys we could run it or shift everyone out wide, including the RB, and have a legit passing attack while the defense is in a heavier personnel. Potential for some really good mismatches. This could be really be effective at a hurry up pace -- which I still think we under utilize.

[onejayhawk]

5 hours ago, KC_Guy said:

I'm fine with even 3 TE sets in short yardage situations. But even having $ TE active on gameday is a strech - and even more so having them all on the field simultaneously.

@kingseanjohnif we see a single 14 personnel snap during the regular season I'm going to by you a beer.

The 14 setup they ran against the Vikings is very doable in a real game. That was goal-to-go from inside the five, so tough yards. That was Gray split out, Kelce tight on Zeus, Blake tight on Niang with Fortson off his shoulder. Gray runs a fade left, Kelce chips and runs a crossing pattern, Fortson runs flare to the corner and Bell catches the TD a step from where he started. 

5 hours ago, kingseanjohn said:

With our TE, imagine coming out with everyone on the line to block for a single back running play. With our guys we could run it or shift everyone out wide, including the RB, and have a legit passing attack while the defense is in a heavier personnel. Potential for some really good mismatches. This could be really be effective at a hurry up pace -- which I still think we under utilize.

Don't forget motion. Kelce is in motion a lot and Gray excels at it. In the play above, either Kelce or Fortson could easily have gone in motion. 

For what it may be worth, Kelce calls the 14 a T-Rex formation. 

Edited September 8, 2021 by onejayhawk

[HolmesPriest]

What if, and just hear me out, we put in Patrick Mahomes with 10 Tight Ends 😲

[onejayhawk]

3 hours ago, HolmesPriest said:

What if, and just hear me out, we put in Patrick Mahomes with 10 Tight Ends 😲

🤑😻💖

Not really.

[KC_Guy]

5 hours ago, onejayhawk said:

The 14 setup they ran against the Vikings is very doable in a real game. That was goal-to-go from inside the five, so tough yards. That was Gray split out, Kelce tight on Zeus, Blake tight on Niang with Fortson off his shoulder. Gray runs a fade left, Kelce chips and runs a crossing pattern, Fortson runs flare to the corner and Bell catches the TD a step from where he started. 

Don't forget motion. Kelce is in motion a lot and Gray excels at it. In the play above, either Kelce or Fortson could easily have gone in motion. 

For what it may be worth, Kelce calls the 14 a T-Rex formation. 

I understand that. But first - you need all four active for gameday - which is hard to do. Then you need a fitting situation.

Edited September 9, 2021 by KC_Guy

[onejayhawk]

Sure. But you draw it up and practice it and you do variants with Kemp or Burton in one of the roles. It's one more matchup headache to exploit. 

J