Texas_OutLaw7 Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 We absolutely disagree. I follow the math and probability. You don’t. That’s okay. But this all started because you said a decision was stupid when it wasn’t. Your feelings got in the way of the math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rtnldave Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Texas_OutLaw7 said: We absolutely disagree. I follow the math and probability. You don’t. That’s okay. But this all started because you said a decision was stupid when it wasn’t. Your feelings got in the way of the math. This time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rtnldave Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 7 hours ago, Matts4313 said: If they use analytics properly this should never happen. Ever. They should always go with the choice that has the greatest probability of winning. Whether they win or lose is an entirely different matter. Ahhh, this I have NOT seen. "Properly" being the subjective term. What defines "properly"? Is it a chart with percentages? To dig deeper into my insecurity with this approach and, especially this team, properly is a fairly loose term. It allows for advocates of analytics to claim, in the event of failure, that it wasn't used "properly". Ie: an out. Can this team govern themselves enough to know when "properly" is enforced? Example: 1992 NFC championship game. Dallas is in SF red zone and has a chance to either kick a FG, going up 2 scores, or going for a TD or 1st down on 4th down They choose to go for it and don't get it. If, and hindsight is 20/20, they lost that game because SF capitalized on our over-aggressiveness, who here would have agreed it was the right call, that is, was it used "properly?" Believe me, I get what you are all saying, but the simple fact is I believe this team has a legit shot to compete for a title. I just don't want them to blow it do to a computer algorithm or something. I still believe that the human mind, knowing your team, camaraderie and just flat out will to win is what gets it done. And when I saw them use analytics last week and NOT convert I was like, WTF! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted October 9, 2021 Author Share Posted October 9, 2021 24 minutes ago, Rtnldave said: Is it a chart with percentages? Pretty much. These things have been posted. Youve seen them. 24 minutes ago, Rtnldave said: It allows for advocates of analytics to claim, in the event of failure, that it wasn't used "properly" No, it absolutely does not. Because the decision and the results are two separate entities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted October 9, 2021 Author Share Posted October 9, 2021 25 minutes ago, Rtnldave said: I get what you are all saying I really dont think you do. Because even in your last example - you got it wrong. If the analytics say go for, we do, and we lose... Then you ask why? Almost always it will be the players execution. Whether we executed poorly or the other team executed amazingly. Sometimes you happened to just call the absolute right/wrong play, which lessens the execution factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted October 9, 2021 Author Share Posted October 9, 2021 29 minutes ago, Rtnldave said: And when I saw them use analytics last week and NOT convert I was like, WTF! .............Exactly why you arent on the same page with me and others. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rtnldave Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Matts4313 said: .............Exactly why you arent on the same page with me and others. Because after the penalty in the 1 point conversion attempt, which lead to the 2 point attempt, I was like, wtf, just take the easy point! But they went for it, missed it and Car took the lead at halftime. Had we lost that game due to following analytics in that scenario you are seriously going to sit there and tell me you and everyone else on here would be like, "it was the right thing to do?" I will believe that when, and if, I see it. Edited October 9, 2021 by Rtnldave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas_OutLaw7 Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 Based on the conversation id imagine you'd disagree with him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted October 9, 2021 Author Share Posted October 9, 2021 48 minutes ago, Rtnldave said: , I was like, wtf, just take the easy point! Yes. Exactly. 48 minutes ago, Rtnldave said: But they went for it, missed it and Car took the lead at halftime. This doesnt matter. I dont know how many times, and how many ways, people can repeat it. Its not the outcome, its the decision making process that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rtnldave Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 10 hours ago, Matts4313 said: Yes. Exactly. This doesnt matter. I dont know how many times, and how many ways, people can repeat it. Its not the outcome, its the decision making process that matters. Thank you for explaining that Matts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiller Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 12 hours ago, Matts4313 said: Yes. Exactly. This doesnt matter. I dont know how many times, and how many ways, people can repeat it. Its not the outcome, its the decision making process that matters. I just disagree with the decision in these cases. I just think unless you have significant issues with your kicking game going for 2 does not help you as much as hurt you early in the game. Also with the argument about analytics, I am fine with analytics but I feel you must not forget the emotional component. Some time the numbers say go for it, but the number's never account for how much spark a team can get from either making the 1st down, or try or stopping the 1st down or try. A players emotional state can play a huge factor in football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas_OutLaw7 Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Math. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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