Bye Week Thoughts

[Old Guy]

59 minutes ago, Rainmaker90 said:

🤣 seriously, wtf is wrong with me. 
 

I thought I’d get killed for the ‘call a Fair catch regardless’ take. 
 

 

That was your best take! In fact, the way we've 'caught' punts, I'm for letting it go. Then again, with Amari Rodgers back there that is usually the case anyway. 

[OneTwoSixFive]

5 hours ago, Rainmaker90 said:

Jerry Gray was with us last year too. Are you saying the continuity is helping there? 

My bad there. For some reason (probably age) I thought Gray came to us after last season, not before. That does reinforce even more that it was Barry that made the difference, more than anything else.

I'm with you on Pettine. It took a long time for me to sour on him. Perhaps I was overly influenced by the Rex Ryan quote that was around at the time Pettine was hired.

"Pettine is the smartest guy in the room........and I don't care who else is in that room." 

5 hours ago, Rainmaker90 said:

Does the D-line responsibilities change in the Fangio defense? 

Not significantly that I know of , but you'd have to find a better X and O guy, for a definitive answer.

Edited December 5, 2021 by OneTwoSixFive

[Joe]

@OneTwoSixFiveit took me awhile to sour on Pettine as well because of how much success he previously had. That said, we retained his entire staff but him after last season IIRC so the issue was clearly the scheme and not the coaching.

[mikemike778]

21 hours ago, Rainmaker90 said:

I just don’t know who is out there that would be better then Mason. 
 

Honestly, I think his struggles leading to more aggressiveness on 4th down is a good thing. We need to put teams away with TDs. If we’re deep in their territory and it’s 4th and 4 ish , there are many situations that I would go for it. More than in the past.

 

Re the final point,  I do agree with going for it more on 4th down.   There's a reasonable case for saying, right guys anything 4th and 5 and less we are going for. Its much harder psychologically to stop teams if you know they are going 4 downs.  But you need to kick sometimes and he is going to lose us games if this doesn't get sorted - even extra points look difficult for him.  

I don't know who else is out there.  If it isn't fixed by the playoffs though you have to do something. Kicker isn't a sexy position but it wins or loses you games and going into the playoffs with one of the worst in the league form wise is a huge risk.  Hopefully they can sort it during the bye week. It is fixable but its a huge problem at the moment. 

[Rainmaker90]

2 hours ago, mikemike778 said:

 

Re the final point,  I do agree with going for it more on 4th down.   There's a reasonable case for saying, right guys anything 4th and 5 and less we are going for. Its much harder psychologically to stop teams if you know they are going 4 downs.  But you need to kick sometimes and he is going to lose us games if this doesn't get sorted - even extra points look difficult for him.  

I don't know who else is out there.  If it isn't fixed by the playoffs though you have to do something. Kicker isn't a sexy position but it wins or loses you games and going into the playoffs with one of the worst in the league form wise is a huge risk.  Hopefully they can sort it during the bye week. It is fixable but its a huge problem at the moment. 

For me it still comes down to who else could we get that has experience in high pressure situations? I think that plays in the postseason. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Rainmaker90

[OneTwoSixFive]

14 hours ago, Joe said:

@OneTwoSixFiveit took me awhile to sour on Pettine as well because of how much success he previously had. That said, we retained his entire staff but him after last season IIRC so the issue was clearly the scheme and not the coaching.

I did see some stuff on cheesehed tv where they were talking about Barry's scheme being fairly simple (at least in this, his first year at GB). They suggested that the success he has had is less down to scheme and more to good execution. I'm not so sure that that is the main reason, but it is at least partly true.

[{Family Ghost}]

17 hours ago, Joe said:

@OneTwoSixFiveit took me awhile to sour on Pettine as well because of how much success he previously had. That said, we retained his entire staff but him after last season IIRC so the issue was clearly the scheme and not the coaching.

I liked him at first .. he talked a good game and seemed like an aggressive coach.  Then game day came and they were soft and passive more often than not.  

Edited December 6, 2021 by {Family Ghost}

[Kepler]

Do kickers fall off a cliff that fast though? I really have no idea, it just seems like he was hitting everything forever and then one day he can't do it anymore. I'd almost think he has some injury that hasn't come out, but the ST coaches probably wouldn't want that info held back lol. Who knows, I guess stranger **** has happened before.

[craig]

On 12/4/2021 at 1:09 PM, Rainmaker90 said:

Special Teams:

28. Lot of people will disagree with this, but I don't care to return another punt again (unless we're down and REALLY need a big swing ). I don't care how much room they have either. Take it out of their heads. Tell them to just catch the ball, no more catch and run, just catch it. I don't want to lose by a Special Teams play. That's the LAST way I want to go down. I'm tired of it.

Heh heh, I like this concept, particularly if the other guys are trained not to try to block for the return.  In years past I've sometimes suspected we tend to lose more yards by penalty than we gain by actual returns?  

Part of Amari's problem is that he's so challenged to just get under the ball so that he can fair-catch it. 

• Micah Hyde had played lots of baseball center field.  He was could run to the ball to make a catch. 
• Rodgers so often  lets it hit the ground and bounce. 
• A bouncer might bounce off of Malik Taylor, that turnover need not have happened if Rodgers had simply run to the ball and caught it. 
• And bouncers often rolls for a bunch more yards.  Amari, please just run to the ball and make the catch! 

[mikemike778]

3 hours ago, Kepler said:

Do kickers fall off a cliff that fast though? I really have no idea, it just seems like he was hitting everything forever and then one day he can't do it anymore. I'd almost think he has some injury that hasn't come out, but the ST coaches probably wouldn't want that info held back lol. Who knows, I guess stranger **** has happened before.

Its psychological.  I don't think he has fallen off a cliff skill wise but its probably gone from an automatic well oiled machine to him having to think about it. The blocked kicks got into his head so he worried about that and then started missing so tried to adjust.  So what was essentially an automated process has become much more manual and everything is so much more difficult.  

It has happened to him before.  Its such a technical skill that I guess once its gets slightly out of sync you are in trouble.  I'm certain its fixable just whether or not, it can be fixed before playoffs.  The issue now is every miss is going to make every kick that much harder.

 

 

[skibrett15]

On 12/5/2021 at 10:42 AM, Rainmaker90 said:

🤣 seriously, wtf is wrong with me. 
 

I thought I’d get killed for the ‘call a Fair catch regardless’ take. 
 

 

issue is the returners are incapable of actually catching the ball and reading the football in the air.  It's not an easy skill, but you have to be able to read the punt, get to the spot, and secure the ball.

They can call for fair catch all they want but the part after the signal is the breakdown, not the unwillingness to signal.

[skibrett15]

5 hours ago, Kepler said:

Do kickers fall off a cliff that fast though? I really have no idea, it just seems like he was hitting everything forever and then one day he can't do it anymore. I'd almost think he has some injury that hasn't come out, but the ST coaches probably wouldn't want that info held back lol. Who knows, I guess stranger **** has happened before.

year to year kicker consistency is incredibly high variance.  With the exception of Justin Tucker.

[craig]

6 hours ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

I did see some stuff on cheesehed tv where they were talking about Barry's scheme being fairly simple (at least in this, his first year at GB). They suggested that the success he has had is less down to scheme and more to good execution. I'm not so sure that that is the main reason, but it is at least partly true.

Thanks for sharing that perspective. 

• That could make a lot of sense. 
• This is the best tackling Packers team in years, that's an execution thing. 
• We had injuries last year too.  Safety, corner, and LB injuries resulted in a lot of snaps for Redmond, for example, and Josh Jackson, and for Summers and Kamal Martin.  Not a few of the missed tackles involved Redmond and those guys.  
• I think the availability, stability and quality of play from the Sullivan/Campbell/Amos/Savage group has really helped a ton.  Again, not sure that's anything scheme-novel.  But that's a quality four-some that's been able to execute well.
• My feeling is that adding a good, every-down ILB like Campbell has helped a lot.  He knows what he's doing.  He's been a terrific tackler.  He's fast and long and he's been a qualified coverage guy, something that Barnes, Martin, and Summers weren't very well equipped for.  He's also been a capable spy.  Guys like Russel Wilson, Kyler Murray, and Patrick Mahomes didn't make many frustrating drive-extending runs as I thought sometimes happened in past with our weaker ILB play?  I know it's board perspective to not value ILB much.  But I think the stronger interior play from the midfield defenders, ILB and safeties and Sullivan, has helped quite a bit.
• Seems to me that replacing Redmond and Jackson with Stokes and Rasul has helped the secondary to improve considerably, even though Jaire has missed so much time.  
• I may be imagining, but I think CB coverage has tightened up?  Seemed the King-side coverage last year was often so soft that it allowed some easy completions.  Just like the coverage over the middle underneath was vulnerable.  So teams just got a lot of quick and easy short passes that got drives started, converted 3rd downs, and also got QB's into rhythm.  Seems this year that Stokes, Rasul, and Jaire often play tighter and don't allow so many easy completions outside; while Sullivan/Campbell/Amos/Savage have likewise made the short throws over the middle less easy.  
• Clark missed a lot of time last year, and wasn't 100% immediately upon his return.  His consistency of availability and impact has been huge this year.  

This will perhaps sound terrible and heretical.  But I wonder if NOT having Z has perhaps had some advantages in terms of run-containment?  Blake Martinez noted that Pettine authorized Z to free-lance, and Blake's job was to improvise around whatever Z did and clean up any mess, if needed.  Z's freedom to roam and attack where he saw fit perhaps sometimes resulted in vulnerable running lanes etc?  

[Rainmaker90]

9 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

issue is the returners are incapable of actually catching the ball and reading the football in the air.  It's not an easy skill, but you have to be able to read the punt, get to the spot, and secure the ball.

They can call for fair catch all they want but the part after the signal is the breakdown, not the unwillingness to signal.

I don’t disagree with that. But maybe there’s a mental component thinking about the run or hit.

[Rainmaker90]

8 hours ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

I did see some stuff on cheesehed tv where they were talking about Barry's scheme being fairly simple (at least in this, his first year at GB). They suggested that the success he has had is less down to scheme and more to good execution. I'm not so sure that that is the main reason, but it is at least partly true.

I bet the answer is a bit of everything, but there’s gotta be something he’s doing with the D-line. Everyone, including Clark is playing better. As much as I like Campbell idt he’s the sole reason why our run defense isn’t an issue .