Rebuild through the line

[Raidersfan1]

Terron Armstead - 6 years, $156m 

https://saintswire.usatoday.com/2021/09/18/2022-free-agents-saints-terron-armstead-contract-news/

 

Tyler Linderbaum C Iowa in the first round. Road grader

Edit: Brandon Joseph S Northwestern in the second round (maybe next year)

Jalen Wydermyer TE Texas A&M in the second round. Quick-twitch. Uses frame to shield defenders. Sure handed. Large catch radius

Chad Muma LB Wyoming in the third round. Small school/inside linebacker value. Good size and twitch

Jalen Pitre DB Baylor in the fourth round. Versatility bonus

Matt Araiza P San Diego State in the fifth round. Ray Guy award winner. Flip the field. Run the ball. Play good defense

Some guard or inside linebacker in the sixth round. Good value for these positions for fringe starter/good backup

Wide Receiver/specialist in the seventh round

 

 

 

Leonard Fournette 2 year, $16m ($11m guaranteed)

Marcus Mariota 1 year, $8m

 

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Raidersfan1
...

[Dcash4]

18 minutes ago, Raidersfan1 said:

Terron Armstead - 6 years, $156m 

Steeler's don't throw big money, long term deals at top level FA's on the wrong side of 30...which, is a pretty good rule to follow.

There are certain things that will change moving forward with financial flexibility we haven't had, but I don't think that's one of them. 

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, Dcash4 said:

Steeler's don't throw big money, long term deals at top level FA's on the wrong side of 30...which, is a pretty good rule to follow.

There are certain things that will change moving forward with financial flexibility we haven't had, but I don't think that's one of them. 

I know not a lot are fans of this but I would toss a front loaded deal at Cam Robinson. He’s underrated because of Jacksonville, but he can be a stopgap for 1 year at LT, draft a LT high in 2023 draft, move Cam to RT. 

[Dcash4]

4 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I know not a lot are fans of this but I would toss a front loaded deal at Cam Robinson. He’s underrated because of Jacksonville, but he can be a stopgap for 1 year at LT, draft a LT high in 2023 draft, move Cam to RT. 

He is a no for me, but if you get him dirt cheap I wouldn't be as opposed to it, mainly because of how young he is. I think you are going to be able to find more talents stop gaps, though. Potentially for cheaper. Leno probably isn't getting a big deal and would be a good starter for 2 years. 

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, Dcash4 said:

He is a no for me, but if you get him dirt cheap I wouldn't be as opposed to it, mainly because of how young he is. I think you are going to be able to find more talents stop gaps, though. Potentially for cheaper. Leno probably isn't getting a big deal and would be a good starter for 2 years. 

I see him as a long term RT. Basically buy a year at LT with him and know RT is solved. 
 

Maybe part of this is keep Banner to play RT as a 1 year stop gap and get a better OL coach and build up Moore. 

[Dcash4]

10 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Maybe part of this is keep Banner to play RT as a 1 year stop gap and get a better OL coach and build up Moore

Ugh, I hope not. At least on Banner. I was fine with them having him and Chuks as our starting tackles this year (Chuks as the 4th year guy and Banner had 3 years and 300 snaps). I assumed the hope was that one of them would be retained. But feels very much like the Banner ship has sailed since they essentially won’t even try to make the o-line work with anyone else. 

I would like to see Moore at RT. Maybe him Vs Banner isn’t an awful situation with better coaching….but it’s a hard sell to think Tomlin hasn’t completely moved on from Banner. I think him and Schobert are day 1 off-season cuts. 

[warfelg]

Just now, Dcash4 said:

Ugh, I hope not. At least on Banner. I was fine with them having him and Chuks as our starting tackles this year (Chuks as the 4th year guy and Banner had 3 years and 300 snaps). I assumed the hope was that one of them would be retained. But feels very much like the Banner ship has sailed since they essentially won’t even try to make the o-line work with anyone else. 

I would like to see Moore at RT. Maybe him Vs Banner isn’t an awful situation with better coaching….but it’s a hard sell to think Tomlin hasn’t completely moved on from Banner. I think him and Schobert are day 1 off-season cuts. 

Fair enough take. Like I said though. 2-3 year process here. Whiffing 2021 is gonna hurt though (I know we disagree but I don’t see much hope right now and we’re in a prime spot for Linderbaum)

[Dcash4]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

Fair enough take. Like I said though. 2-3 year process here. Whiffing 2021 is gonna hurt though (I know we disagree but I don’t see much hope right now and we’re in a prime spot for Linderbaum)

I have no problem at all with the Lenderbaum route. I just wouldn’t run out of my way to get a middling FA C or draft someone to replace the second year guy with upside after the first round. I thought it was the consensus with everyone that he was…but apparently Tomlin and Co didn’t think so. Some of the stuff he can do movement wise if off the charts, but he desperately needs coaches. Was a weights champ at Illinois, so hopefully they can make something transfer. Could end up just flat being awful, but I’d give him another year to figure it out and concentrate elsewhere. 

And it is a 2-3 year build to really good/elite, but you can turn around to being decent pretty quickly. I’d sign 1.5 starters and draft a guy in the first 2 rounds in a perfect work. Let coaching try to take steps for the young guys and then repeat the following off-season for which ever spots you need. 

Now you have this damn Banner thought in my head that it actually might make sense to put him and Big Dan Moore at RT and battle for it though…so who knows what I want. 

[warfelg]

36 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

I have no problem at all with the Lenderbaum route. I just wouldn’t run out of my way to get a middling FA C or draft someone to replace the second year guy with upside after the first round. I thought it was the consensus with everyone that he was…but apparently Tomlin and Co didn’t think so. Some of the stuff he can do movement wise if off the charts, but he desperately needs coaches. Was a weights champ at Illinois, so hopefully they can make something transfer. Could end up just flat being awful, but I’d give him another year to figure it out and concentrate elsewhere. 

And it is a 2-3 year build to really good/elite, but you can turn around to being decent pretty quickly. I’d sign 1.5 starters and draft a guy in the first 2 rounds in a perfect work. Let coaching try to take steps for the young guys and then repeat the following off-season for which ever spots you need. 

Now you have this damn Banner thought in my head that it actually might make sense to put him and Big Dan Moore at RT and battle for it though…so who knows what I want. 

I dunno man. I wish I could see it with Green but I just don’t. Maybe he gets one more year but he would be on a really short leash and I’m signing a near starter level backup. Or make it a straight up camp battle. 
 

Edit: but this is a good talking point for how to create better depth. Green may have room to grow, but you bring in legit competition or you draft someone you feel is better. Best case? They challenge each other and play one of them at guard. Worst case? You can end up with a top end inside swing lineman of someone that can play G or C. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by warfelg

[AFF]

Sign a LT and an interior OL...at least 1 should be a long term solution...1 can be a 1-2 year stopgap if necessary.

Draft another OL within the 1st 2 rounds.

[mwalker]

I agree with the headline of this post. And I think it's plural "lines" as well.
You cannot improve dramatically through the draft alone, so I'd suggest the following:

Sign one long term starter in FA on the OL and one solid DL starter.
I'd go all in on OG Brandon Scherff, personally.
My back ups would be L.Tomlinson or C.Williams.

On the DL I'd take look at F.Fatukasi and B.HIll in the middle. 

Then you draft an OT and interior OL with two of your first four picks
and DL with one of the others (I think the other pick goes on CB or ILB).

I think they have to take a couple big swings in FA, with the state of this team
and with the amount of cap room they have.

Then really hit the uglies in the draft.
 

[CKSteeler]

2 hours ago, mwalker said:

I think they have to take a couple big swings in FA, with the state of this team
and with the amount of cap room they have.

They have a **** ton of cap space. I mean, look, the Pats were pretty down last year having walked away from Tom Brady and being depleted at the offensive skill positions and seeing their defense fall back into the middle of the pack. They addressed their major holes in FA, waited for the QB they wanted to fall to them in the draft and they're back near the top of the AFC this year. 

They're going to have to use FA to spend near the cap. They don't have the homegrown talent to spend it on even if they wanted to. Hopefully they don't decide to back up the brings truck for Juju and play it smart. 

I don't think it matters because the team doesn't have the coaching to take a bunch of new pieces and put together a quality product. I've seen enough to make that conclusion. There's too much laziness among the coaches. Even with a staff shake-up, they are even lazier about who they bring on board than they are about everything else.

[Dcash4]

13 hours ago, warfelg said:

I dunno man. I wish I could see it with Green but I just don’t. Maybe he gets one more year but he would be on a really short leash and I’m signing a near starter level backup. Or make it a straight up camp battle. 

Two things really stand out with me for Green 1) I do not want to waste another asset or FA spend on replacing a guy we just drafted last year with upside before finding out if he can unlock his potential 2) I'm just not surprised a dude 99% of people said would need time ....needs time. 

I honestly want to see what an NFL off-season does for him. He has some plays that show his insane quickness an athleticism. He has a couple times flipped his hips and moved his feet after snapping the ball and got to the outside shoulder of a guy lined up on his outside shoulder before that player gets outta his stance. Problem is, he has also done that and completely over-aligned himself and given that guy free access to the backfield. 

Green needs coached up something awful. He needed a redshirt season and he desperately needs an NFL offseason. He has no play strength, but is a weight champion from college -- so there's power to unlock. 

I would just rather get the spring and summer and see what we unlock in a talented, yet extremely unrefined second year player. If needed, move onto Hassenauer (who is not bad, he just isn't really good) or pick up some of the loose change cuts/trade opportunities in the fall. But I would concentrate my efforts elsewhere unless the high floor/highest ceiling Linderbaum gets to our pick -- that kid is going to be an instant star. 

13 hours ago, AFF said:

Sign a LT and an interior OL...at least 1 should be a long term solution...1 can be a 1-2 year stopgap if necessary.

Draft another OL within the 1st 2 rounds.

Yes. I'll continue to bang the Connor Williams drum. He will be 25 and played well, but was benched for penalties in Dallas...but their run game went downhill without him too. Another guard option would be James Daniels if the Bears dont bring him back. And with their coaching turnover, who knows. 

La'el Collins will not be a Cowboy next season either. Gotta like his flexibility, gotta hate his injury (and suspension) history. But that would be a big swing. I Imagine Dallas would rather trade him than cut him, but in looking at his current contract -- might be take a huge trade asset to do so (yay, we trade our 4th, 5th and 6th!). 

I think the IOL is where the long term signing is (Connor and Daniels are both in that 24/25 range) and the LT/RT role can be filled by a Morgan Moses / Charles Leno short term, stop-gap signing. I would really, really like to draft a LT within the first 2 rounds. Probably resign Chuks (who is also only 24) as the potential stop gap starter at LT or RT and future swing tackle behind the rookie. Try to move Dan Moore to RT

Leno/Chuks/Rookie - Williams/James - Green - Dotson - Moses/Chuks/Moore

It wouldn't be a top 10 unit by any means, but it would be a significant step in the right direction, IMO. If you end up with Linderbaum in the first round, it only makes that more significant. Also, shouldn't break the bank and you could pour that additional money into a top flight CB. 

[warfelg]

@Dcash4while I don’t disagree with any of what you are seeing, for every play like that I see 3 where he misses leverage (something that shouldn’t need coached at the NFL level tbh), misses assignments, ends up on the ground. Heck there was one in the Minny game where they sent the Mike and 3T in the RA-gap, and Green went left. That’s a play where both Turner and Harris gave him a look. (I’ll try to see if I can find it). The part that’s getting me the most of “he’s just not it” is missing snap counts. And it’s getting worse. That’s a mental lapse. When I coached I told players that basic skill problems will never get you pulled. But mental lapses were a quick way to see the bench because you either don’t get it or don’t want to get it. 

[warfelg]

16 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

I do not want to waste another asset or FA spend on replacing a guy we just drafted last year with upside before finding out if he can unlock his potential

I’m replacing him if I know I’m better. At the very least I’m bringing in someone who will compete for the job. He has not earned the right to go unchallenged.