Rebuild through the line

[Dcash4]

23 minutes ago, warfelg said:

And it’s getting worse. That’s a mental lapse.

I put that squarely on coaching though. Not for his skill not improving and not absolving Green of his issues, but for continually throwing him out there. He is absolutely overwhelmed and it shows. But it all rolls back to what my main theme for him is....he isn't ready, and we knew that. I'm not going to be surprised he isn't ready when everyone and everything said he wouldn't be. We threw a guy who needed development to the wolves and....it's going exactly as we should have expected it to go. 

32 minutes ago, warfelg said:

When I coached I told players that basic skill problems will never get you pulled. But mental lapses were a quick way to see the bench because you either don’t get it or don’t want to get it. 

This I agree with in general....but not with a rookie in the NFL who had, what, 5 games at Center before this season? His learning curve was huge, he had flaws coming in, and they continually put him to task to handle snapping (overall, new to him), NFL line calls, and then remembering plays and adjustments. It just all rolls back, for me, that the coaching has put him in an absolutely terrible spot and he continues to show that....and their answer is....well, go play more. 

It may not be that he doesn't get it or that he doesn't care. It could very likely be that he is just completely overwhelmed -- which is what it looks like. 

33 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I’m replacing him if I know I’m better. At the very least I’m bringing in someone who will compete for the job. He has not earned the right to go unchallenged. 

And I am cool with replacing him as long as that guy is a completely known, major improvement -- like Linderbaum. TBH, he and Hassenauer should have been in a legit competition from the start so he had to earn his spot. They immediately had him starting from Day 1, despite that the depth chart said. Thats on Mike and Klemm. Tomlin had comments that Kozora has highlighted that he called Green a NFL ready prospect. I am fairly certain that was just a bad example from Tomlin...but if they actually thought that....well... maybe we do need to move on from Green, because they don't have interest in coaching him. 

[Dcash4]

I guess my biggest thing with green is the asset management. Just like we have seen via receiver and runningback, I don’t want to spend a top 3 pick to replace last years top 3 pick that was spent on a developmental without seeing that players development through one NFL off-season (which is generally hugely impactful). We have too many places that need attention, IMO, for us not to try to see it through with Green for one off-season. 

If he struggles through the summer and into the pre-season games in the fall — move on then. The upside of him working out while we add to other positions is too great. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Dcash4

[Cbrunn]

Nobody is moving on from green after 1 season, when he was thrown into the fire where most rookies are not good, his upside is still high 

He was 1 of everyone favorite picks of the draft if I'm not mistaken, the upside is there give the guy a chance

[Raidersfan1]

QB, WR, RB are "wants"

Would like to fix the line with one pick or two and then address other defensive needs with the remaining picks. Signing long term impact starter in UFA on offensive line is a "need"

Was able to deliver a playmaker in the second round that is "Gates-like" which will mitigate any loss of JuJu and Washington (i.e. adding a weapon)

Went away from the standard disappointing DB in the earlier rounds and preferred to go for value. Would consider DL in the first or second round as that "need" looms in the distance

Addressed the run the ball. Play good defense. Flip the field "need"

Added Fournette to extend the career of Najee and fortify the team identity. Also added a good playaction QB with Mariota and he now has two good TE's. Think Mariota is a good QB with two TE's as he can utilize his mobility on bootlegs and have easy throws

Have three QBs to compete to be the starter. 

[CKSteeler]

Roethlisberger commented on Green this week. It was not a ringing endorsement, like he gave Dan Moore Jr. (called him the team's LT for a very long time). He said Green should kick inside to guard, where his personality would be a better fit. Made it sound like Green gets distracted too much on the field and isn't focused on the cerebral part of the center position. That's a pretty candid take to make public.

I don't think the team is going to be taking their cues from Ben here, but that's a guy who has played with some pretty good centers (and some trash...Sean Mahan). 

I'd personally give him more time, unless, as Dcash has stated, the perfect prospect falls into their laps. I do think the team fell too much in love with the idea of a highly athletic center. Tomlin seems to love his interior guys to be mobile/athletes whereas I've always just wanted guys who would win in a phone booth. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by CKSteeler

[Raidersfan1]

18 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

Roethlisberger commented on Green this week. It was not a ringing endorsement, like he gave Dan Moore Jr. (called him the team's LT for a very long time). He said Green should kick inside to guard, where his personality would be a better fit. Made it sound like Green gets distracted too much on the field and isn't focused on the cerebral part of the center position. That's a pretty candid take to make public.

I don't think the team is going to be taking their cues from Ben here, but that's a guy who has played with some pretty good centers (and some trash...Sean Mahan). 

I'd personally give him more time, unless, as Dcash has stated, the perfect prospect falls into their laps. I do think the team fell too much in love with the idea of a highly athletic center. Tomlin seems to love his interior guys to be mobile/athletes whereas I've always just wanted guys who would win in a phone booth. 

The reason I addressed left tackle with big money is it's a good way to allocate funds to rebuild the team, and it also allows Dan Moore to slide into right tackle where he can offer pro bowl caliber (i.e. Marvel Smith) type play.

If Linderbaum is there, he fits in with that grit and snarl of centers past. Dotson is probably our best guard. Then you kick over Green and have him compete with a 6th Rd pick and Joe Haeg type player. 

That's a much improved bunch.

[cjfollett]

I agree with the general sentiment to improve the O and D line through FA and the draft. I think if Linderbaum is there when the Steelers are on the board, they should take him. Move Green to G and see what he can do. I think he'll be decent at worst. If not, he can be the backup IOL. 

After (or before) that, it depends on what the Steelers do in free agency, as well as the status of Tuitt and Alualu. The Steelers have a few holes to fill this offseason as I am sure you all will agree. I am not sure of priority, but these are the positions of need as I see them: S, CB, QB, OL, DL, LB

 

[jebrick]

I would love to see if David Decastro or some other former NFL lineman is interested in coaching.  Looking back, the Steelers had good lines under Grimm and Munchak.  Perhaps they can catch lightning in a bottle again.

[warfelg]

Dunno where to put this: 

Buggs was cut. 

[MOSteelers56]

4 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Dunno where to put this: 

Buggs was cut. 

He was a weird fit to begin with. Heavy, stumpy edge guy in college that we tried to make into a NT/3tech sort of. He would make 1 good play, but then be dominated by the o-line the next 30 plays. 

[VigilantZombie]

Tyler Lindebaum, imo, should absolutely be the first round pick. Mive Green to RG, Kevin Dotson is our LG, Give Dan Moore competition at LT and draft another OT (someone with pedigree), slot that person as competition for RT. There, imo, isn't much point in taking a QB high if the quality of play from the OL doesn't improve. We have seen too many organizations ruin QBs by putting them in behind horrible OLs

[warfelg]

3 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

Tyler Lindebaum, imo, should absolutely be the first round pick. Mive Green to RG, Kevin Dotson is our LG, Give Dan Moore competition at LT and draft another OT (someone with pedigree), slot that person as competition for RT. There, imo, isn't much point in taking a QB high if the quality of play from the OL doesn't improve. We have seen too many organizations ruin QBs by putting them in behind horrible OLs

Heh man. Stop talking about a multi year bottoming out. 

[VigilantZombie]

4 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Heh man. Stop talking about a multi year bottoming out. 

I don't know, if Tomlin is staying, If we are necessarily in for like 4-12 seasons repeatedly. I do think we are going to see some hack stride. All I'm saying is. You gotta be able to protect a QB and imo Lindebaum is the Creed Humphrey of this draft and regardless of Green, Lindenbaum can play C or G, although realistically you're drafting him as a C whoever "you" is.

Edited January 9, 2022 by wwhickok

[3rivers]

if they change all the coaches in denver, then bring Munchak back, replace Okafor with Banner. That would help the OL. Alualu and Tuitt will help the DL.