Apparition Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 53 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: He got beat on the double, went in & underneath instead of going over the top once the ball was in the air, and was basically standing still as the ball was caught. Terrible play by Kazee too but Diggs deserves every bit of blame that he gets for that play. Aggressiveness a blessing and a curse, life of a ball hawking CB. That... doesn't really contradict what I said, though. If Kazee does his job, Diggs is on the hook for a 30-yard completion rather than a 75-yard TD. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFlyZone Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, CWood21 said: @Jakuvious put it out there for you. PFF attributes 53 receptions to Diggs. PFR attributes 52. Those numbers are valid. Again, I’m looking for examples as to how these stats have been attributed to him. That’s all I’m asking for. You would think it would be easy if Diggs has given up such a ridiculous amount of plays. It just doesn’t match what people see when they actually watch the games instead of blindly referring to a stat sheet instead of watching the guy actually play football. Edited January 3, 2022 by NoFlyZone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 5 minutes ago, NoFlyZone said: Again, I’m looking for examples as to how these stats have been attributed to him. That’s all I’m asking for. You would think it would be easy if Diggs has given up such a ridiculous amount of plays. It just doesn’t match what people see when they actually watch the games instead of blindly referring to a stat sheet instead of watching the guy actually play football. The onus is on you to prove otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFlyZone Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, CWood21 said: The onus is on you to prove otherwise. How does one provide proof of something not happening? I’m simply wanting the stats to be substantiated with something. I’m not even trying to be obstinate, I just genuinely want to see what is truly being attributed to him because it does not match what many people see when actually watching him play instead of only looking at stats without any context at all. Edited January 3, 2022 by NoFlyZone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11sanchez11 Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 2 hours ago, NoFlyZone said: It was absolutely decimating the Cowboys offense in the first half. i think dropping back from the cover 0 look was winning, not actually blitzing from it. would have to look into it to make sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 10 minutes ago, NoFlyZone said: How does one provide proof of something not happening? Pick one of the games where PFR credited Diggs with a poor game (I'd suggest against the Patriots, Chargers, or Broncos), and clip the ones where he "allowed" the reception and argue that he shouldn't have been the one responsible. It really isn't that difficult. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 25 minutes ago, Apparition said: That... doesn't really contradict what I said, though. If Kazee does his job, Diggs is on the hook for a 30-yard completion rather than a 75-yard TD. It…does, though. You said it was more Kazee’s fault, when it wasn’t. It was Cover-1 with man coverage across. Kazee has two receivers running deep routes, he stays center until Mac commits. Diggs bites on the double move. Diggs trails off on the play and slows down, expecting Kazee to make the tackle. Kazee misses. Off to the races. Imagine a CB getting beat on a double move (…by Kendrick Bourne), taking a bad angle, slowing down as the ball arrives, and then primarily blaming the FS. Kazee was dead wrong and took a horrible angle but he didn’t get burnt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 4 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: It…does, though. You said it was more Kazee’s fault, when it wasn’t. It was Cover-1 with man coverage across. Kazee has two receivers running deep routes, he stays center until Mac commits. Diggs bites on the double move. Diggs trails off on the play and slows down, expecting Kazee to make the tackle. Kazee misses. Off to the races. Imagine a CB getting beat on a double move (…by Kendrick Bourne), taking a bad angle, slowing down as the ball arrives, and then primarily blaming the FS. Kazee was dead wrong and took a horrible angle but he didn’t get burnt. We're arguing semantics. I never said the CATCH was mostly Kazee's fault, I said the fact that it got taken to the house was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 51 minutes ago, NoFlyZone said: My issue with blaming Diggs on the NE play is that he peeled off because he thought Kazee was making the play… they both more or less said as much after the game, too. I understand that technically it was Diggs’ guy, but he peeled off to let Kazee make the easy play and then wasn’t in position to recover when Kazee laughably blew it. Again, you could technically say it was on Diggs, but there was a lot more to that play. He trailed off…after getting beat on the route. Kazee trailed off too, but he didn’t get beat on the route. He mailed it in because he thought the other guy was going to make a play, same as Diggs. Laziness isn’t an excuse for either of them, but only one got burnt in coverage. Even if you want to absolutely turn a blind eye to losing on the route, you don’t get a pass for saying “well, I thought the other guy was going to make the play, so I slowed down”. It happens, but it’s not an excuse. 51 minutes ago, NoFlyZone said: Slightly confused about the 2nd part of your post. 200ish yards from one game? I’m assuming you’re referring to Toney… but I’m not sure why Toney’s total yardage is being attributed to Diggs. He wasn’t following Toney in that game, and certainly got beat well on one play… but he was absolutely not responsible for Toney’s total yardage. Toney + 75 yards to Bourne + 45 yards to Patrick = ~200 some odd yards. 51 minutes ago, NoFlyZone said: I’m simply looking for specific examples of Diggs consistently being beaten several times a game on a per game basis. It just doesn’t actually feel like it’s happening. Go watch some game film then. As someone that doesn’t watch every play of every game, I feel comfortable using stats that are relatively close across multiple platforms. Nobody said he was getting picked on every game, just that if multiple sites are putting up similar numbers, then it seems far fetched to call them drivel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFlyZone Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 11 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Pick one of the games where PFR credited Diggs with a poor game (I'd suggest against the Patriots, Chargers, or Broncos), and clip the ones where he "allowed" the reception and argue that he shouldn't have been the one responsible. It really isn't that difficult. Without knowing what specific plays they are attributing to Diggs how is this possible? For example I'll use the Saints game, because I feel like it is particularly odd. Supposedly Diggs gave up 4 catches on 10 targets for 98 yards... 24.5 yards per catch. That's all they give you to work with. I can't tell what plays against him they are even referring to. So this accomplishes nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 Just now, NoFlyZone said: Without knowing what specific plays they are attributing to Diggs how is this possible? For example I'll use the Saints game, because I feel like it is particularly odd. Supposedly Diggs gave up 4 catches on 10 targets for 98 yards... 24.5 yards per catch. That's all they give you to work with. I can't tell what plays against him they are even referring to. So this accomplishes nothing. TL;DR I don't want to do the work. Am I right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFlyZone Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, CWood21 said: TL;DR I don't want to do the work. Am I right? You have got to be kidding me. You aren't even trying to be reasonable/ objective about this. Explain to me how it is even possible for me to know what plays they are referring to. It is literally not possible without context. I would absolutely speak to their examples if I knew what their specific examples were.... except there aren't any. Just numbers without context. I don't think anyone came away from watching that Saints game thinking that Trevon got cooked for 100 yards. Edited January 3, 2022 by NoFlyZone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 9 minutes ago, Apparition said: We're arguing semantics. I never said the CATCH was mostly Kazee's fault, I said the fact that it got taken to the house was. You actually said the long TD, which wouldn’t have happened if Diggs didn’t bite on the route, but sure even if we isolated the run - Diggs is way out of position because he was expecting another player to make a tackle that he could’ve been in position to make himself. Not really an excuse there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 5 minutes ago, NoFlyZone said: You have got to be kidding me. You aren't even trying to be reasonable/ objective about this. Explain to me how it is even possible for me to know what plays they are referring to? It is literally not possible without context. I would absolutely speak to their examples if I knew what their specific examples were.... except there aren't any. Just numbers without context. Q2 4:12 - 9 yard pass to Tre'Quan Smith Q3 13:29 - 6 yard pass to Nick Vanett Q4 3:21 - 13 yard pass to Marquez Callaway Q4 2:32 - 70 yard TD pass to Deonte Harris That literally took ZERO effort. None. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFlyZone Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 (edited) 17 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Q2 4:12 - 9 yard pass to Tre'Quan Smith Q3 13:29 - 6 yard pass to Nick Vanett Q4 3:21 - 13 yard pass to Marquez Callaway Q4 2:32 - 70 yard TD pass to Deonte Harris That literally took ZERO effort. None. Alright cool, I appreciate you posting the examples... I was literally asking for it for I don't know how long. Clearly I would have done it if I knew where to access these numbers... not sure where the misunderstanding on that took place. I truly don't even know how you got that information, but hey, let's look into that 70 yard touchdown. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmTbW3lIZVM ^ Jump to 12:18 for the play The play took place with 2:47 left in the game with Dallas up 27-10... Dallas seemingly playing well off the ball in a game that was well over and decided. Harris catches an underneath pass and weaves through the entire (completely uninspired) defense to score a 70 yard touchdown... which apparently only Trevon was responsible for. This is why context is important. He hadn't allowed anything of worth in that game (while also grabbing a pick) until that completely meaningless play where the entire Dallas defense sleep walked as Harris waltzed into the endzone.... I mean, even just watch Parsons on that play. If someone wants to use that as an example of Trevon being a bad cover corner... come on. That was on the entire defense for basically being like "oh no..." and not hustling because the game was over. It was kind of a pathetic effort all around... which was okay I guess, because the game was definitely over. Yet, when all is said and done the stat sheet would indicate that Trevon had a bit of a rough game... when that is clearly not what actually happened. I'll have to look into the other games and figure out where these plays are actually pointed out... though its getting a little late for looking at every game. I'll definitely get around to it, though. I'm genuinely interested, because I have wondered for a long time what was going into these numbers. Edited January 3, 2022 by NoFlyZone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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