Armsteeld February 1st Mock

[MOSteelers56]

7 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

I have made it no secret that I have no problem with a "two down NG" in the first round. I will continue to argue that in goal line and short yardage situations those guys become three and four down players. When was the last time the Steelers stopped anyone running on third or fourth and one consistently? 🤐  That is often the difference between wins and losses (or ties in the Lions game). I still see the Titans back-up RB slashing the Steelers on every short yardage attempt in the game.

Here’s my take on the NT issue. “When was the last time the Steelers stopped anyone on third or fourth and one consistently?” The answer is, when we had Steph Tuitt, and Heyward. Our defense, without a true plugger NT, has stopped the run well. Why waste a high pick on a guy that can ONLY play the run? Why not take a guy that can help us stop the run AND rush the passer AND not have to take him in the first? 

[armsteeld]

11 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

@armsteeld 

I am still in the early stages of evaluation with some of these players. I am doing some film watching and research on prospects/players in my spare time. 

Jordan Davis - - I love the pick. Almost willing to say great pick depending on the value of the players around him.  He is a player who could have a Vita Vea type impact on our defense. What he would bring on inside run defense, keeping our smaller, quicker type ILB's clean, goal line and short yardage plays alone would be worth it. We saw the effect of no Tuitt and Tyson. You still have to be able to stop the run and force negative down in distance to better favor your defense. 

I have made it no secret that I have no problem with a "two down NG" in the first round. I will continue to argue that in goal line and short yardage situations those guys become three and four down players. When was the last time the Steelers stopped anyone running on third or fourth and one consistently? 🤐  That is often the difference between wins and losses (or ties in the Lions game). I still see the Titans back-up RB slashing the Steelers on every short yardage attempt in the game.

 

I think you go Johnson or Sayler not both. Both look to be built for more OG than OT.   I personally prefer Sayler, but Johnson seems to more of the type that the Steelers would go after.  I would raid the Ravens and try to steal their C Bradley Boseman. We then have Dotson and Kendrick as the projected OG's.  One of these guys would be good insurance.  I would go after an OT with one of these picks. I want to see Banner given a shot, but you also have to have a very good back-up plan as he has never played a full season of football.  

 

CB is definitely a need.  I would look at FS as well as I still think we need the player to be what Ryan Clark was to Troy for Minkah. I would rather have a coverage FS than an in the box type. 

As far as WR, I am trying to sign Ju Ju (at a reasonable rate for both, but don't want to exceed $16 mill) (Yes, I think he is worth that much). or another veteran FA.  We probably lose Washington as well. Drafting an up and coming WR is still on the board. How about Jameson crowder as a F/A?

I would prefer a veteran upgrade at RB to back-up Najee. Someone mentioned Sony Michael. I personally like Phillip Lindsey (someone along those lines). Different style and speed. I have lost confidence McFarland being able to get and stay on the field.

If a Schobert deal is not renegotiated and he is cut, then I would spend that on a bigger name Free agent who can come in and make an impact Vander Esch or Evans. Drafting a guy unless he is more marquee will probably not give us more than wat is already in the cupboard (safeties playing ILB Killebrew and Allen or smaller, quicker actual LB's who don't have the impact Ulysses Grant. 

Late I would like a solid PR/KOR man.  Ray Ray is okay, but I think that is an area that the team could also upgrade. I will add I was impressed with Ray Ray down the stretch as a receiver. His hands were actually more reliable than Dionte's and Chase's the final four or five games. 

 

Thank you for the research and overall a solid draft from making this team tougher and stronger in the trenches.  I think they need some OT's with size and length. The Steelers have a thoroughbred stud at RB in Najee. He is who I would base the offense around. Get him some people movers, hole openers, movers of men, big McNasty's, Maulers whatever you want to call them. 

 

Lastly, we have to keep an eye on the Tuitt situation. If he leaves, you almost have to get an upgradeable free agent over Wormley and Loudermilk.  Someone mentioned Solomon Thomas as a solid target. I would consider Perrion Winfrey, Travon Walker, Michael Clemmons, or  Ben Stille (A-a-ron Smith's love child from the initial eye test).  I am still researching, but Clemmons could be a player to invest in. He has the size and frame to add a few pounds. The Steelers like their A&M players of late.  Stille is not quite the athlete of Smith, but a smart kid from reports and I like his frame and girth. He won't get a lot of sacks, but can be disruptive collapsing the pocket and seems to have the body/frame for what the Steelers like in their 5-tech guys. 

 

Well said and thanks. I enjoy talking football with you all. I can agree with almost everything you said. The LB I chose, Clarence Hicks, had 31 tackles for loss and 12.5 sacks. He's only 6'2 225 but that is the same size as Nakobe Dean who is 6' 225 and Channing Tindall who is 6'2 225. Those guys are very comparable. If there is no significant gap in talent than I'd rather get the same player in a later round.

@jebrick Salyer is a man-child at LT. The only thing is that he's even better at OG. He shined at LT in the toughest conference in college. He was tested by talented players on a weekly basis. He had almost no gimme matchups.

Salyer was Georgia's best offensive lineman this year and an All-SEC player at left tackle. He played a key part in holding Michigan defensive end Aidan Hutchinson without a sack in Georgia's Orange Bowl. But in the biggest moment, Smart, Todd Monken and Matt Luke pulled the trigger. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dawgnation.com/football/UGA_chase_for_the_championship/jamaree-salyer-georgia-football-national-championship/LOV6QXRJXVGSBLHKM6YS3ILWIA/%3foutputType=amp

[jebrick]

But in the NFL, he is a RT or a OG.  I think he could be an all-pro OG but YMMV

[Steeler Hitman]

47 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

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Here’s my take on the NT issue. “When was the last time the Steelers stopped anyone on third or fourth and one consistently?” The answer is, when we had Steph Tuitt, and Heyward.

When is the last time that we had both of them healthy together? We keep trying to use 5 tech guys to do what a NG should do.  I also believe we had Tuitt and Cam in 2017 when the Jaguars ran the ball down the Steelers throats. I am not saying not to get those types of players, but I put a higher premium in stopping the run and being tough up front than many others do. I am all about draft value, but if others didn't think differently Vea would never have been a #1. 

If Deron Payne was there, I would probably take him over Davis from a flexibility standpoint.

The Steelers issues on defense are not pressure and pass rush anymore. They are run stopping, pass defense and points allowed. Get me some guys that can ensure the defense is seeing more third and seven or eight than third and two or three. If a NG does that, he has more than earned his keep and I like our chances of improving the third down conversions and getting off the field with an offense having to deal with the Steelers pass rush. 

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Our defense, without a true plugger NT, has stopped the run well.

We have been inconsistent at best. I get the game has changed from 2005, but with how this team needs to be constructed to win, I believe that this helps them much more. They need to get tough up front on both sides of the ball. The past two years we have heard the "Soft" and Steelers in the same sentence. 🤬 I don't think I am over-reacting to the deficiency by taking a NG if the value is there.

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Why waste a high pick on a guy that can ONLY play the run?

This was the worst run defense that the Steelers have fielded in over 30 years I believe. Look at how our offense struggled with getting the RB tackled for minus two on first down and then one yard on second.  We lived in the world of three and outs.  It wore our defense down even more and it made our offense inept. 

With TJ Watt in his prime, Alex Highsmith Ascending, and the Ole' man Heyward with juice in the tank, we can get a pass rush consistently. Provided these guys stay healthy. We could not stop the run with the three of them most of the time.  Why? There were no horses up front! 

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Why not take a guy that can help us stop the run AND rush the passer AND not have to take him in the first? 

Versatility is great, but this is still a game of specialist. We take the thumper out on passing downs.  Yes he can't cover the TE or RB, but if he can shut down the run, mission accomplished. Third and long is harder to convert than third and one.

From my perspective it is far from a wasted pick.  Yes if there is a long term LT, take him. If there is a solid ILB, Safety or CB rated in the same pick neighborhood with the same value, take him. But if he is the BPA and we reach for an athlete like we did SS Edmunds because he is a NG that is just as ridiculous to me. Edmonds is on the field the majority of defensive snaps..... How did that help the run defense? The game is still won and loss in the trenches. 

Look at how consistent run defense stymied our offense and made them play from behind. The team did not have success running until teams went to the "great" Nickel, Dime, or Prevent Defenses that took big DL's and LB's out of the game. 

Don't under-estimate situational football. Winning on first and second downs greatly help get your defense off the field and your offense back on it. I say try it, we might like it! 

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Steeler Hitman

[armsteeld]

5 minutes ago, jebrick said:

But in the NFL, he is a RT or a OG.  I think he could be an all-pro OG but YMMV

Is your opinion based on measurables or talent? Zion and Jamaree have the talent. They're just 1" than shorter than the "prototype" OT. What OT, in this draft class, do you think would be better fit at OT? I still have plenty of OTs to look at but I like Faalele and and the guy from Washington State (iirc).

[jebrick]

Salyer has issues with lateral movement.  he has short arms and poor technique.  Georgia schemed vs Hutchinson or gave Salyer help with a chip.  I remember a play that Hutchinson made Salyer look foolish on an inside move but the ball was out of Daniel's hands almost as soon as he caught it.  No, no.  Salyer is best as a OG where he can use his power and his short arms are less of an issue.  

As I said, YMMV but I'll put money that Salyer plays OG in the NFL. 

[mwalker]

I think J.Salyer can be a solid RT. I'm almost sure he can be great OG.
I think his flexibility is a plus. 

[Steeler Hitman]

Salyer has created some buzz at the practices at the Senior Bowl. I don't think anyone doubts his talents and abilities. I think it comes down to being a solid to good RT versus being potentially a great RG with the ability or flexibility to play RT in a pinch.  

I think he could be a similar shorter OT like  Kelvin Beachum at RT.  His style is different and he is much more physical and powerful than Beachum.  Beechum probably has better lateral movement and foot and movement than Jamaree who will look to move or maul you. 

Or he could potentially be a Quentin Nelson type at OG. That is pretty huge praise for a rookie, but he seems to have quite a ceiling from what I have seen initially and have heard discussed about him.  It also doesn't hurt that he went up against three very good IDL pro prospects at UGA daily at practice. 

I would also conclude that based on his strengths and measurables he probably fits in best at OG. 

T Jamaree Salyer, Georgia

Height: 6’2 3/8”
Weight: 320
Arm Length: 34”
Wingspan: 80”
Hand: 9 1/2”

Compared to another OT prospect who is taller and much longer

 

T Matt Waletzko, North Dakota

Height: 6'6″
Weight: 310
Arm Length: 35 1/8″
Wingspan: 85 3/4″
Hand: 10 1/8″

 

Jamaree is shorter, but not necessarily smaller (He weighs 320 lbs). He is compact, powerful, and doesn't necessarily have short arms or a short wingspan, but compared to  a taller longer prospect who is more ideally suited to kick outside. He is giving up close to 4" in height  and while this prospect has very long arms (more than a 7 foot wingspan) you can see the opposite if someone tried to kick him inside where his strengths are not necessarily at the point of attack and a lot of the smaller, quicker, or even more powerful IDL would use his height and length against him.  

I understand how you feel because I was actually against the Steelers moving Matt Feiler to OG because I thought he was a better RT despite being able to play both at 6'5 or 6'6.  Feiler is a strong guy, has the meat hooks  hands like Jamaree and is not incredibly long. I don't remember his wingspan, but I think his arm length was much shorter that Jamaree's at 31 1/2" or 32".  While he was able to do some things well at RT because he was a more power based guy, he struggled with pass protection at times and also got beat by quicker Edge or DE's. I think he struggled his first year at LG because he wasn't comfortable.  He looked much better this year in San Diego at OG. For what OT's are asked to do in pass protection, that length is needed.

The game's evolved. In the 70's the RT was the primary OT position. The NFL was run heavy and wanted RT's who could move  and move people. The fact that the passing game has become so much bigger and teams are built around their franchise QB, you have to be able to protect the investment and franchise. Those talents require different skills and a different body type to do those skills. 

 

[jebrick]

I would say Salyer is more Joel Bitonio than Nelson in that Nelson can move ( like DeCastro).  Salyer is not a smooth mover like Nelson and DeCastro but a power in-line blocker.

[DR43]

Would you expect Jordan Davis to move to DE?  We obviously wouldnt take a NT in round 1.

[Steeler Hitman]

1 hour ago, jebrick said:

I would say Salyer is more Joel Bitonio than Nelson in that Nelson can move ( like DeCastro).  Salyer is not a smooth mover like Nelson and DeCastro but a power in-line blocker.

I would agree with that. I didn't think of that as I believe Boitonio was also a OT prospect coming out as well who flourished (dominated actually) at OG.

I was more speaking of overall talent and ability level in my analogy (I.E. How good he could be/ceiling). Quentin Nelson is rare prospect in the mold of the all time greats like John Hannah, Steve Hutchinson, Alan Faneca, and yes David DeCastro too. Nelson can both move or maul/mix it up with you too.

I agree that Salyer does not have the same footwork/smoothness as you said. Salyer is definitely more people mover/mauler than footwork. And that isn't necessarily a bad thing in my eyes. 

[Steeler Hitman]

4 minutes ago, DR43 said:

Would you expect Jordan Davis to move to DE?  We obviously wouldn't take a NT in round 1.

I would if the talent is there and I feel this kid is talented enough to be a first round draft pick. He can dominate. 

In our current scheme no, but if the defense did more of their two DL alignments absolutely.  Obvious problem would be playing as a traditional DE with the lack of speed to ideally contain as a traditional DE is asked to do. 

Become more creative with a players talents and scheme and he can play more than first and second down at times. 

[armsteeld]

19 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

I would if the talent is there and I feel this kid is talented enough to be a first round draft pick. He can dominate. 

In our current scheme no, but if the defense did more of their two DL alignments absolutely.  Obvious problem would be playing as a traditional DE with the lack of speed to ideally contain as a traditional DE is asked to do. 

Become more creative with a players talents and scheme and he can play more than first and second down at times. 

Well said. We think he'd struggle at DE because of a perceives lack of speed but I think he is quick enough to play the 2 DE sub. I think Davis's 10 yard split will be incredible for such a big man.

[Steeler Hitman]

Just now, armsteeld said:

Well said. We think he'd struggle at DE because of a perceives lack of speed but I think he is quick enough to play the 2 DE sub. I think Davis's 10 yard split will be incredible for such a big man.

I don't think many people realize the athlete that he is and the straight-line speed that he has.  I heard an interview with Jamaree Salyer saying that he was clocked at over 20 MPH running downfield in a game with pads at nearly 350 pounds!!!🤫 

I know there is always Urban Legend, exaggerations, and even out right lies about players during the draft process, but watching this guy he is an athlete. I am not saying he will run down Patrick Mahomes, but it is similar to when I saw former Cowboys OL Larry Allen run down the Saints LB after an INT. 

The kid is a beast. I am not saying he should be the pick or has to be the pick, but if he is BPA, take him. Don't reach for another player or position. I hate some of the rules or boxes that we place ourselves in.  Like last years, "Never take a RB in round 1." He was probably the BPA at that point, yes take him! We saw the other side of not trading and over drafting a player several times. 

[jebrick]

With how the current defense is set up, the DE's are DTs in a 4-3.  Just that, besides Hayward, they are not very good at it.