The Good the Bad, The Ugly vs the Dolphins

[NightTrainLane]

2 hours ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

Seth Roberts is such a great blocker its almost like having another TE on the field? Lol exaggerate much? Wasn't there one play against the Ravens he got embarassed on a block? And why are we so bad at WR screens if he such a great blocker? He is a solid blocker for a WR but he is a RECEIVER and as a RECEIVER, he is nowhere near good enough to start for this team.

Bottom line is, Seth is garbage. For every game winning catch he makes, he makes 2-4 bad plays that end drives. He is not a factor this year in games. His play didn't warrant a contract extension before and it looks even worse now. But Reggie loves his guys and he thinks Seth is a udfa gem, but he's not.

Yes, he missed one block. He has made countless TD aiding blocks down field. Calling him a TE was a bit of an exaggeration but but that's why I said "almost". We routinely use him as one on gun runs when he is either lined up stacked close to the line or he motions there and he takes out corner and safeties.

Bottom line is he isn't garbage. He makes more than game winning catches. He makes timely catches in traffic. There are a few drops and a few misques with Carr but those happen for a WR and are magnified because people on this sub like to itch and moan when anything negative happens. Half of the plays aren't even his fault but it's blamed on him anyways. But you're welcome to your opinion. I have stated mine. He is a key part to our offense and has earned his contract. A guy that give you 450-500yrds and 5 tds is worth 2-4mil a year in the Nfl. Just the market. Guys his deal comps with are M.Goodwin, Shepard and Ginn Jr and he out produces them easily. But make up whatever narrative that you want.

[SBXISBXVSBXVIII]

2 hours ago, Chali21 said:

Statistically he did. I think he allowed all but one of the passes to be completed thrown his way. He also was responsible for one of the TDs in a big way. There’s a reason he’s down so far on the depth chart. Sean Smith though has only allowed something like 4 receptions for 14 yards or something. Totally surprising on that but I think they’re finally scheming him in the right spots. Honestly the secondary needs Amerson and Conely back. Hopefully they can get their starters back on the back end by the time the play the patriots. They also need to be very physical against their WRs if they want to beat them. Much of what makes their offense go is the timing, throw it off and then you can get to Brady. In theory. Personally I think they’re going to play 10 yards off and Brady is going to make a lot of 7-9 yard throws slowly marching down the field, like a slow poison destroying the Raiders. Or they’ll line Cooks up with Smith and beat them the Saints way. Honestly it could go either way with this group. 

If we don't get pressure on Brady, he's going to carve up this defense. It'll be a brutal night for our DB's.

[NightTrainLane]

2 hours ago, Chali21 said:

Statistically he did. I think he allowed all but one of the passes to be completed thrown his way. He also was responsible for one of the TDs in a big way. There’s a reason he’s down so far on the depth chart. Sean Smith though has only allowed something like 4 receptions for 14 yards or something. Totally surprising on that but I think they’re finally scheming him in the right spots. Honestly the secondary needs Amerson and Conely back. Hopefully they can get their starters back on the back end by the time the play the patriots. They also need to be very physical against their WRs if they want to beat them. Much of what makes their offense go is the timing, throw it off and then you can get to Brady. In theory. Personally I think they’re going to play 10 yards off and Brady is going to make a lot of 7-9 yard throws slowly marching down the field, like a slow poison destroying the Raiders. Or they’ll line Cooks up with Smith and beat them the Saints way. Honestly it could go either way with this group. 

While I'm happy that SS isn't giving up big plays, I think only a portion has to do with scheme or in his play (though those are probably part of it). I think the bigger part of the pie on that is that they are picking on the other side or the middle of the field where the rookies and UDFAs are.

[SBXISBXVSBXVIII]

14 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

He's a non factor in most games. He'll catch a touchdown here or there, but has extremely inconsistent hands. Basically, when you compare him to a lot of #3's on good teams, he's no match, especially from a production standpoint. 

Imagine if we had a real threat in the slot. How much better this offense would be. Holton at least is a dangerous vertical threat. Roberts hasn't shown enough to keep holding on to the #3 receiver role with Holton back there not getting great snaps.

Other than one game, people could say Cooper is a non factor in most games also. But Cooper isn't vilified like Roberts. Why? Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems most, if not every Roberts hater's major issue is drops. Using that same criteria, Cooper should be crucified for having more drops than Roberts, but it doesn't happen. Again, why?

[SilverNBlackFan]

1 hour ago, NightTrainLane said:

Yes, he missed one block. He has made countless TD aiding blocks down field. Calling him a TE was a bit of an exaggeration but but that's why I said "almost". We routinely use him as one on gun runs when he is either lined up stacked close to the line or he motions there and he takes out corner and safeties.

Well we don't get down field much so i guess we'll never get to see much of this great aiding blocker that Seth is. Im sure there are plenty of other subpar receivers who can block late in the draft that we could find.

1 hour ago, NightTrainLane said:

Bottom line is he isn't garbage. He makes more than game winning catches. He makes timely catches in traffic. There are a few drops and a few misques with Carr but those happen for a WR and are magnified because people on this sub like to itch and moan when anything negative happens. Half of the plays aren't even his fault but it's blamed on him anyways. But you're welcome to your opinion. I have stated mine. He is a key part to our offense and has earned his contract. A guy that give you 450-500yrds and 5 tds is worth 2-4mil a year in the Nfl. Just the market. Guys his deal comps with are M.Goodwin, Shepard and Ginn Jr and he out produces them easily. But make up whatever narrative that you want.

You mean how you harp on Coop when he drops a pass? 

And outside of the TN game, what timely catches has he made this year? He has basically been a ghost. Patterson and Holton have been far more impressive in their stints. Im sure if given the targets they could produce similar numbers to seths. On his best day, Seth is a a inefficient, body catching, low-IQ (I only ever see Carr yell at him for running wrong routes) player that is somehow clutch at the end of games. That's not good enough for me. 

Maybe he should only play in 2 min situations. he can be our closer like kobe

[Chali21]

2 hours ago, SBXISBXVSBXVIII said:

If we don't get pressure on Brady, he's going to carve up this defense. It'll be a brutal night for our DB's.

I agree however that’s easier said than done, especially if the DBs are playing off. The patriots are the best in the business at completing a series of 4-5 yard passes. That makes it very difficult to get a pass rush on Brady when he gets rid of the ball so quickly. What the Raiders have to do is beat up the WRs at the LoS. Get them and Brady off the mark maybe they can apply pressure. 

[raidr4life]

3 hours ago, SBXISBXVSBXVIII said:

Other than one game, people could say Cooper is a non factor in most games also. But Cooper isn't vilified like Roberts. Why? Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems most, if not every Roberts hater's major issue is drops. Using that same criteria, Cooper should be crucified for having more drops than Roberts, but it doesn't happen. Again, why?

Because Roberts on his best day will never have a 10 catch 200 yard game. You can agrue that drops aside Cooper is not being used properly in alot of cases.

[SBXISBXVSBXVIII]

3 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

Because Roberts on his best day will never have a 10 catch 200 yard game. You can agrue that drops aside Cooper is not being used properly in alot of cases.

I agree 100% Cooper isn't being used properly. I also agree 100% Roberts on his best day will never have a 10 catch 200 yard game. I love Cooper and don't really have a feeling one way or another about Roberts. I was just saying, imo, Roberts gets vilified about his drops, but Cooper doesn't. I wasn't comparing their ability at all. It was more like if Roberts is going to get trashed for drops, then Cooper needs to get trashed with the same piss and vinegar as Roberts does. 

[BackinBlack]

I dunno, I see a lot of people ripping on Cooper for his drops. A lot of people.

The difference is, at least in my mind, Cooper has shown the ability to beat man coverage against the best of the best. 

Cooper has proven he should be on the field cause safties have to account for him and he draws double teams. It is a huge advantage and Cooper actually helps out everyone on the team when on the field. His drops are brutally frustrating, and I hope can be used in contract negoations, but other teams treat him as our #1.

Teams leave Roberts in single coverage all game and he still has yet to show consistency.

Cooper gets blasted by the media, the casual fan and game commentators for his drops but everyone still respects his talent and he is a guy that needs to be game planned against.

[SBXISBXVSBXVIII]

11 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

I dunno, I see a lot of people ripping on Cooper for his drops. A lot of people.

The difference is, at least in my mind, Cooper has shown the ability to beat man coverage against the best of the best. 

Cooper has proven he should be on the field cause safties have to account for him and he draws double teams. It is a huge advantage and Cooper actually helps out everyone on the team when on the field. His drops are brutally frustrating, and I hope can be used in contract negoations, but other teams treat him as our #1.

Teams leave Roberts in single coverage all game and he still has yet to show consistency.

Cooper gets blasted by the media, the casual fan and game commentators for his drops but everyone still respects his talent and he is a guy that needs to be game planned against.

I would agree with this. But, Cooper is # 1 for a reason and Roberts is # 3 for a reason. Yet, most posters hate on Roberts because they think he should play like a # 1 or # 2, which is wrong. I'm not calling out anyone in particular. It's just an opinion from a guy that doesn't have a good or bad feeling about Roberts.

[NightTrainLane]

3 hours ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

Well we don't get down field much so i guess we'll never get to see much of this great aiding blocker that Seth is. Im sure there are plenty of other subpar receivers who can block late in the draft that we could find.

You mean how you harp on Coop when he drops a pass? 

And outside of the TN game, what timely catches has he made this year? He has basically been a ghost. Patterson and Holton have been far more impressive in their stints. Im sure if given the targets they could produce similar numbers to seths. On his best day, Seth is a a inefficient, body catching, low-IQ (I only ever see Carr yell at him for running wrong routes) player that is somehow clutch at the end of games. That's not good enough for me. 

Maybe he should only play in 2 min situations. he can be our closer like kobe

I know what it is now...you sound like he slept with your wife and she convinced you to take her back so you have to live humiliation and anger haha...damn you mad.

Seth blocking happens on all types of plays, not just down field passes. He blocks on the goalline when we bring in trips to spread out the defense and then run the ball and on short passes to Coop and Crab. You really underestimate his importance to the offense. Holton isn't and probably will never be as developed a player as Seth is and it has nothing to do with usage. Yes, many WRs could produce similar #s with the targets Seth gets but they aren't on this team and the teams they are on pay them the same as Seth has been paid and Seth gives us the added bonus his blocking. Carr got frustrated with him once and now that gets added to the narrative too. It's okay. Get all that anger out.

[MrOaktown_56]

5 hours ago, SBXISBXVSBXVIII said:

Other than one game, people could say Cooper is a non factor in most games also. But Cooper isn't vilified like Roberts. Why? Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems most, if not every Roberts hater's major issue is drops. Using that same criteria, Cooper should be crucified for having more drops than Roberts, but it doesn't happen. Again, why?

I just lost brain cells reading this comment.

Cooper gets separation, is underutilized, and is often in bracket coverage. Drops are just one of Roberts many problems. He's extremely inconsistent, has been known to run the wrong routes at times, doesn't consistently separate in the slot, and has drops as well. 

Cooper's best game this year is more yards than Roberts has in 9. He's a high level talent at the receiver position, you'll live with the drops. Roberts is one of the worst slots in the league, for him it matters way more when he's not even reliable let alone dynamic.

 

[MrOaktown_56]

7 minutes ago, NightTrainLane said:

I know what it is now...you sound like he slept with your wife and she convinced you to take her back so you have to live humiliation and anger haha...damn you mad.

Seth blocking happens on all types of plays, not just down field passes. He blocks on the goalline when we bring in trips to spread out the defense and then run the ball and on short passes to Coop and Crab. You really underestimate his importance to the offense. Holton isn't and probably will never be as developed a player as Seth is and it has nothing to do with usage. Yes, many WRs could produce similar #s with the targets Seth gets but they aren't on this team and the teams they are on pay them the same as Seth has been paid and Seth gives us the added bonus his blocking. Carr got frustrated with him once and now that gets added to the narrative too. It's okay. Get all that anger out.

2

You're basically saying we're stuck with him so at least he can block well. Which is true. But there's so much better out there. A good slot can take an offense to a new level. Roberts isn't reliable/consistent OR dynamic. We need at least one of those two from the slot.

[NightTrainLane]

10 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I just lost brain cells reading this comment.

Cooper gets separation, is underutilized, and is often in bracket coverage. Drops are just one of Roberts many problems. He's extremely inconsistent, has been known to run the wrong routes at times, doesn't consistently separate in the slot, and has drops as well. 

Cooper's best game this year is more yards than Roberts has in 9. He's a high level talent at the receiver position, you'll live with the drops. Roberts is one of the worst slots in the league, for him it matters way more when he's not even reliable let alone dynamic.

 

Separation isn't his style of play. Cooper and Crab  aren't consistent, for that matter, and it's not all because of usage with them. Seth got reamed for running a route Carr wasn't expecting once and it's part of the narrative now. Whatever man, believe what you want. Seth is an average WR#3 and is paid as such. We don't have anyone that would be more productive on the team with his snaps and provide the blocking he does, which is an important role for our offense.

[NightTrainLane]

7 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

You're basically saying we're stuck with him so at least he can block well. Which is true. But there's so much better out there. A good slot can take an offense to a new level. Roberts isn't reliable/consistent OR dynamic. We need at least one of those two from the slot.

See my above posts. Already addressed this.