Does Defense Win Championships?

[Carmen Cygni]

Off topic: Antler spray helps with osteoarthritis, and that's it. Anyone saying anything else is trying to sell you something, literally.

[DontTazeMeBro]

Other than the Colts game in the AFC Championship the 2014 Patriots defense didn’t play that well in the postseason. Against the Ravens and Seahawks they made one big play to end each game. But the opposing offense got the better of both matchups

[Carmen Cygni]

8 minutes ago, DontTazeMeBro said:

Other than the Colts game in the AFC Championship the 2014 Patriots defense didn’t play that well in the postseason. Against the Ravens and Seahawks they made one big play to end each game. But the opposing offense got the better of both matchups

This is another close example as allowing just over 20 pts/g is simply average. Though if you look at the second halves of each of those games the defense, in typical Patriot fashion they stiffened considerably forcing 3 & outs, causing mutiple opportune takeaways, and allowed no more than 10 pts. 

[Soko]

22 minutes ago, Carmen Cygni said:

Though, the one reigning fact, excluding the one lone exception, is a team has never won the SB with par defensive play in the postseason. 

Points Per Game during their post season runs:

2016 Patriots: 34.6 PPG (league average: 22.7 PPG)

2014 Patriots: 36 PPG (league average: 22.6 PPG)

2013 Seahawks: 29.7 PPG (league average: 23.4 PPG)

2012 Ravens: 31 PPG (league average: 22.8 PPG)

2011 Giants: 25.5 PPG (league average: 22.3 PPG)

2010 Packers: 30.3 PPG (league average: 22 PPG)

2009 Saints: 35.7 PPG (league average: 21.5 PPG)

2008 Steelers: 28.3 PPG (league average: 22 PPG)

So I guess offenses help quite a bit too, huh?

 

[Carmen Cygni]

3 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Points Per Game during their post season runs:

2016 Patriots: 34.6 PPG (league average: 22.7 PPG)

2014 Patriots: 36 PPG (league average: 22.6 PPG)

2013 Seahawks: 29.7 PPG (league average: 23.4 PPG)

2012 Ravens: 31 PPG (league average: 22.8 PPG)

2011 Giants: 25.5 PPG (league average: 22.3 PPG)

2010 Packers: 30.3 PPG (league average: 22 PPG)

2009 Saints: 35.7 PPG (league average: 21.5 PPG)

2008 Steelers: 28.3 PPG (league average: 22 PPG)

So I guess offenses help quite a bit too, huh?

 

 

 

Of course, offense wins games. It's in the thread title. 

You also need to edit the overall point totals to eliminate ST and defensive scores. 

[Soko]

Just now, Carmen Cygni said:

Of course, offense win games. It's in the thread title. 

And championships, evidently.

[Carmen Cygni]

1 minute ago, Yin-Yang said:

And championships, evidently.

Not without top defensive play.

[Soko]

4 minutes ago, Carmen Cygni said:

You also need to edit the overall point totals to eliminate ST and defensive scores. 

I would if I titled it “Offensive PPG”. 

But I think we’re at an impasse here, Fred. Page 1, I made it obvious where I stood. You need a defense to play well to win a championship, no secrets there, but to me you’re counting your chickens before the eggs hatch if you’re going to use post season numbers. Meaning, after Week 17 of this season, will the team with the best defense win the SB? Possible, but not likely IYAM. Of course after whichever teams wins, we’ll be able to look back and credit their play on the field, but that doesn’t make them a top unit. 

I’m of the opinion that you need to be firing on most cylinders to win it. I’d say GOAT defenses can carry below average offenses while the same can’t be said the other way around, but the overstatement is still there.

[sn0mm1s]

Offenses are more important than defenses. I have linked this several times throughout the years from different sources all arriving at the same conclusion. 

[lancerman]

Don't know if I want to keep arguing my opinion or let my team be praised.....

[biletnikoff]

6 hours ago, Spartacus said:

Actual Logic  Good joke. Except almost all of those average defenses prevented teams from scoring in the playoffs. Can an average to below average defense win a superbowl? Yes  but they better play a lot better in the playoffs. 

The offense still had to score the points. They don't and anything defense did is irrelevant.Defense wins nothing

[Carmen Cygni]

39 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

I would if I titled it “Offensive PPG”. 

But I think we’re at an impasse here, Fred. Page 1, I made it obvious where I stood. You need a defense to play well to win a championship, no secrets there, but to me you’re counting your chickens before the eggs hatch if you’re going to use post season numbers. Meaning, after Week 17 of this season, will the team with the best defense win the SB? Possible, but not likely IYAM. Of course after whichever teams wins, we’ll be able to look back and credit their play on the field, but that doesn’t make them a top unit. 

I’m of the opinion that you need to be firing on most cylinders to win it. I’d say GOAT defenses can carry below average offenses while the same can’t be said the other way around, but the overstatement is still there.

But it's misleading and an inaccurate portrayal of the offense's scoring output.

 

I can agree with the assessment here. 

 

 

[Carmen Cygni]

11 minutes ago, sn0mm1s said:

Offenses are more important than defenses. I have linked this several times throughout the years from different sources all arriving at the same conclusion. 

Quite possibly when looking at overall win totals, but a top offense will never win the big game without a top defense. Whereas the opposite has been proven to be a achievable goal to obtain a championship. 

[Carmen Cygni]

13 minutes ago, biletnikoff said:

The offense still had to score the points. They don't and anything defense did is irrelevant.Defense wins nothing

'00 divisional round game b/w the Ravens & Titans, the Ravens defense produced 14 pts and outscored both the Titans offense (10 pts) and their own offense (10 pts). 

Rare occurrence? Absolutely. But proof has yet to be seen where an offense can overcome a shoddy defense in the postseason and consistently win shootouts to progress through the postseason and win the SB. 

[Spartacus]

13 minutes ago, biletnikoff said:

The offense still had to score the points. They don't and anything defense did is irrelevant.Defense wins nothing

I agree but if your defense gives up 30 to 40 points and doesn't get off the field you may end up with 3 less drives to score and a lot less time. Not to mention needing a lot more points. They both play a very important role.