MWil23 Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 The evidence they had was deemed inadmissible, so chalking it up to consensual prostitution isn’t as cut and dry because it’s impossible to know for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big poppa pump Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/06/30/deshaun-watson-hearing-concludes-after-three-days/ I think the second point in this article from the findings is important. the NFL’s case included no evidence that Watson engaged in violence, made threats, applied coercion, or used force. (Can a sexual assault take place minus these?) Having an independent arbitrator oversee this, when ultimately their suggestion can be overruled by the NFL seems ridiculous. I get that the NFLPA must have caved on this point during negotiations, but it sort of defeats the purpose of an "INDEPENDENT ARBITRATOR" It seems as though her findings will be transparent, so there should be a fairly good idea of why her decision is what it is. As this article seems to suggest, Goodell is in a great position. If the NFL is truly ok with a lenient decision (if that's what she decides) then they can hide behind it, and say it was her decision. If Goodell wants to please the court of public opinion, he can impose a huge suspension, regardless of the findings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 1 hour ago, MWil23 said: The evidence they had was deemed inadmissible, so chalking it up to consensual prostitution isn’t as cut and dry because it’s impossible to know for sure. Why would you suspect more? The women were still charged. They still continued the trafficking investigation they just found no evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 43 minutes ago, big poppa pump said: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/06/30/deshaun-watson-hearing-concludes-after-three-days/ I think the second point in this article from the findings is important. the NFL’s case included no evidence that Watson engaged in violence, made threats, applied coercion, or used force. (Can a sexual assault take place minus these?) Having an independent arbitrator oversee this, when ultimately their suggestion can be overruled by the NFL seems ridiculous. I get that the NFLPA must have caved on this point during negotiations, but it sort of defeats the purpose of an "INDEPENDENT ARBITRATOR" It seems as though her findings will be transparent, so there should be a fairly good idea of why her decision is what it is. As this article seems to suggest, Goodell is in a great position. If the NFL is truly ok with a lenient decision (if that's what she decides) then they can hide behind it, and say it was her decision. If Goodell wants to please the court of public opinion, he can impose a huge suspension, regardless of the findings. Yeah, the criminal case didn't have the evidence either. There isn't any real evidence because of the nature of the offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: Kraft was never accused of forcing anything. That is a HUGE difference. Watson admitted to paying for sex with some therapists. That is hard evidence. Kraft admitted to getting happy endings. Watson similar. Neither will likely get suspended for soliciting prostitution. Watson is going to be suspended for for the 28 claims of sexual misconduct and sexual assault. Which he already settled 20 cases meaning he pretty much admitted he caused damages which he compensated them for. Much like Roethlisberger who was suspended for his deeds (not proven, he said/she said). So why isnt he being tried criminally? serious question Unless he is spinning it as the money was for the massage. Edited July 1, 2022 by AkronsWitness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big poppa pump Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 8 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Yeah, the criminal case didn't have the evidence either. There isn't any real evidence because of the nature of the offense. I believe they said they spoke with 12 of the alleged victims? If the M O was the same, and they all had the same story, I'm not sure how that would not be evidence of either coercion, or force? (if coercion or force was used) There wasn't ever going to be a "smoking gun" like video....but I would imagine 12 identical stories would be compelling? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 15 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: It may not have been a great sentence but it was definitely a long sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 35 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Why would you suspect more? The women were still charged. They still continued the trafficking investigation they just found no evidence. Because of a several months long investigation by the feds with probably a lot of circumstantial evidence and women too scared to come forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 1 hour ago, AkronsWitness said: So why isnt he being tried criminally? serious question Unless he is spinning it as the money was for the massage. Because no one really cares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 1 hour ago, big poppa pump said: I believe they said they spoke with 12 of the alleged victims? If the M O was the same, and they all had the same story, I'm not sure how that would not be evidence of either coercion, or force? (if coercion or force was used) There wasn't ever going to be a "smoking gun" like video....but I would imagine 12 identical stories would be compelling? It still isn't evidence, just similar claims that lead you to believe there is a trend. You still can't bottle that up and show it as proof. It doesn't mean the NFL doesn't believe the claims, just that there is no physical evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 45 minutes ago, MWil23 said: Because of a several months long investigation by the feds with probably a lot of circumstantial evidence and women too scared to come forward. Well the owner of the establishment was his first "therapist". You'd think she would say something when she was booked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big poppa pump Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 10 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: It still isn't evidence, just similar claims that lead you to believe there is a trend. You still can't bottle that up and show it as proof. It doesn't mean the NFL doesn't believe the claims, just that there is no physical evidence. Witness testimony isn't considered evidence? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said: Well the owner of the establishment was his first "therapist". You'd think she would say something when she was booked. Not to be a jerk here but that’s not how human trafficking works… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 2 hours ago, big poppa pump said: Witness testimony isn't considered evidence? In an NFL investigation that isn't under oath? Even under oath it is one person's word against another. It's certainly a trend but no physical evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 1 hour ago, MWil23 said: Not to be a jerk here but that’s not how human trafficking works… Are you saying the owner of the business may have trafficked herself? They were monitoring several locations and their investigation showed no signs that any human trafficking was going on at that location. There was illegal prostitution going on which the women were charged and the clients were charged but they were dropped because of video evidence (that proved their guilt) that wasn't obtained legally. He obviously was guilty of the misdemeanor charge. Any suggestion that there was trafficking going on is wishful thinking (sadly) in hopes that Kraft looks worse and by some people's comparison makes Watson look more normal or as a victim that he gets treated unfairly compared to an owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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