RaidersAreOne Posted April 3, 2023 Author Share Posted April 3, 2023 1 minute ago, MrOaktown_56 said: I actually like Richardson as a prospect. Just not enough to give up what people are suggesting. If another team wants to give up a massive haul to move to 7, we aren't in a good place to outbid them. What would you be content giving up for #3 to select Richardson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted April 3, 2023 Author Share Posted April 3, 2023 This situation is wild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 4 minutes ago, NYRaider said: As prospects? I don’t think it’s unfair to compare him to them. Mahomes was a gun slinger with terrible mechanics coming out of an air raid system. Allen had a cannon but was extremely inaccurate and played at Wyoming. They both had elite physical tools though and so does Richardson. If Mahomes and Allen were such great prospects why did they get selected behind Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, and Mitchell Trubisky? Hindsight is 2020. I'm not even saying he couldn't make a jump to become a top qb. I'm saying what you want to give up is not only prohibitive, it will destroy any opportunity to build through the draft for a qb who is not a sure thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 1 minute ago, RaidersAreOne said: Too many people using current hindsight with Richardson. It's ridiculous to compare him to the top 2 QBs at this point in time of course but I agree, as prospects they definitely have their similarities. AR15 however simply didn't have good college production (Not all due to himself) so people think athleticism + poor production = enormous bust. Yeah I’m not saying that he’s going to be Mahomes or Allen. But they were both extremely talented but flawed prospects that ended up being the third QB off the board and were taken by teams that traded up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 1 minute ago, RaidersAreOne said: AR15 however simply didn't have good college production (Not all due to himself) so people think athleticism + poor production = enormous bust. People need to stop having this mind set and being so close minded. The NFL is so different compared to 5 years ago. AR just needs a year of development and perfect scheme for his traits. It would be so hard to fail on the NFL with his skillset and traits. 5+ years ago, sure, easy to fail. But all the rule changes heavily favor offense and electric QB’s now. Look at Hurts.. he has improved mechanically since his rookie year, but his mechanics and throwing motion are still a bit of a mess. He has a perfect system for his traits though. 5 years ago Hurts is a bust, but the NFL landscape has changed dramatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 Just now, RaidersAreOne said: What would you be content giving up for #3 to select Richardson? Well, I wouldn't move to 3 to select him because of what the cost will be. If you put a gun to my head, a 2nd this year and a pick swap next year (our 2nd for their 3rd). And even that, I'd feel gross about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 Just now, MrOaktown_56 said: Hindsight is 2020. I'm not even saying he couldn't make a jump to become a top qb. I'm saying what you want to give up is not only prohibitive, it will destroy any opportunity to build through the draft for a qb who is not a sure thing. Hypothetically if you traded 7, 38, 100, 2024 1st, you’d really only be losing a 2nd this year and a 1st next year. I don’t think 38 and a first “destroys” any opportunity to build through the draft. And there’s not a single player QB or not that’s a sure thing in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 I did a mock draft simulator today and walked away with Witherspoon (after a modest trade down), Brian Branch, Darnell Washington, Keanu Benton, and Steve Avila. Using a consensus board. None of those picks would make us any less likely to pick top 5 in 2023, but would build a foundation for this team moving forward. That's how I would do it personally. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: Hypothetically if you traded 7, 38, 100, 2024 1st, you’d really only be losing a 2nd this year and a 1st next year. I don’t think 38 and a first “destroys” any opportunity to build through the draft. And there’s not a single player QB or not that’s a sure thing in the draft. Clearly we don't look at the value of these picks the same way. And personally I would be surprised off of Ziegler's moves if he does as well. But we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 Just now, MrOaktown_56 said: I did a mock draft simulator today and walked away with Witherspoon (after a modest trade down), Brian Branch, Darnell Washington, Keanu Benton, and Steve Avila. Using a consensus board. None of those picks would make us any less likely to pick top 5 in 2023, but would build a foundation for this team moving forward. That's how I would do it personally. If you add 5 cornerstone pieces to a team that won 6 games last year (lost 9 by single score) and get worse, that’s not a great sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: If you add 5 cornerstone pieces to a team that won 6 games last year (lost 9 by single score) and get worse, that’s not a great sign. Rookies often don't make large contributions, especially when your qb plays like 5 games a year. Wouldn't this be best case scenario? We suck despite having a great young foundation and then draft Caleb/Maye, who step into a loaded team. That is what I'm hoping for personally. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted April 3, 2023 Author Share Posted April 3, 2023 1 minute ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Well, I wouldn't move to 3 to select him because of what the cost will be. If you put a gun to my head, a 2nd this year and a pick swap next year (our 2nd for their 3rd). And even that, I'd feel gross about it. Everyone has their opinions. I definitely see both sides to this argument. I think I am of the mindset if we keep kicking the "Draft our QBOTF" can down the road until we are in a prime position which doesn't require a trade up we may be waiting a long time. At some point in time something needs to give and we need to be aggressive to take the guy McZ sees as our QB1. Sucking for Luck, Losing for Lawrence, etc is fun to think about but I don't think our roster is 2-14 bad next season and we'd still find ourselves needing to trade up for Williams/Maye (But this time 15+ other teams will be just as aggressive). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 Just now, RaidersAreOne said: Everyone has their opinions. I definitely see both sides to this argument. I think I am of the mindset if we keep kicking the "Draft our QBOTF" can down the road until we are in a prime position which doesn't require a trade up we may be waiting a long time. At some point in time something needs to give and we need to be aggressive to take the guy McZ sees as our QB1. Sucking for Luck, Losing for Lawrence, etc is fun to think about but I don't think our roster is 2-14 bad next season and we'd still find ourselves needing to trade up for Williams/Maye (But this time 15+ other teams will be just as aggressive). If I didn't like the players in this draft so much, I would be more inclined. But look at the mock I did. You can find foundational players at Edge/DL, CB/S, TE, and IOL easily. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 My approach to fixing the defense is to trade down get an extra 2nd and 3rd out of it. Target Porter Jr or Deonte Banks I like Gonzalez but would be happy adding two picks and still getting a #1 CB with size. You now have two 2nd round picks one has to be LB preferably Jack Campbell but wouldn't be mad at Simpson or Sanders. 2nd rounder #2, Edge. D. Hall, Anudike, Foskey all fit the bill for me Round 3 big fatty time, Siaki Ika, Mazi Smith how Graham likes them. Round 3 Sneak in OG or TE Round 3 see above Round 4 Double dip at CB solid corners will still be on the board seeing most of the guys we signed are 1 year contracts should grab another In this deep class even using some of our late round pick to move back into the 3rd with this pick would be smart. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Rookies often don't make large contributions, especially when your qb plays like 5 games a year. Wouldn't this be best case scenario? We suck despite having a great young foundation and then draft Caleb/Maye, who step into a loaded team. That is what I'm hoping for personally. I just don’t see how you can retain the majority of the team, add 5 core players at positions of need, get worse, and it’s a best case scenario. The only way that even seems feasible is if Jimmy goes down early in the year and then you’re stuck paying him in 2024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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