Houston Texans added as defendants in Deshaun Watson sexual misconduct civil trials

[SkippyX]

To be clear, I have no idea if this officer is telling the truth as she understands it and if that is reality.

How could I know?

 

What I don't have is some delusional certainty based on my worldview.

Edited June 11, 2022 by SkippyX

[MWil23]

1 hour ago, SkippyX said:

The detective's testimony in civil trials could be a huge problem for Watson. (as always, only if the juries buy it)

I'd like corroboration from other detectives and prosecutors.

 

Now is the part where I hurt the sensitive feelings with some reality on violent militarized investigative soldiers.

Police had credible evidence and belief of a crime of a motorcycle theft when they assaulted a black family of 5 driving a minivan. They hog tied 2 little girls face down on the blacktop over this. https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/colorado-cops-mistake-black-family-of-five-in-suv-for-one-stolen-motorcycle/

They are literally professional liars. Its in their job description. (listen to Serial Podcast for an idea on how police work... tap tap tap) They assume guilt 24/7.  Cops often get but often don't deserve the default high ground in court. You can believe the story if you want but always consider the source and its motivations.

Lie to citizens. Lie during investigations. Lie to suspects... then turn off the lying in court.. that's easy.

Here is one example:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/new-york-city-judge-dismisses-133-felony-cases-connected-disgraced-det-rcna13049 

and another

https://www.wbez.org/stories/judge-tosses-44-more-convictions-tied-to-corrupt-chicago-cop/d9ede2d7-2f63-49b5-aa65-d250ec072cc5

Here is a tracker:

https://www.themarshallproject.org/records/2528-police-corruption

 

Here's another showing the integrity of police inspired by Jon Oliver's latest. https://publicintegrity.org/education/criminalizing-kids/young-kids-arrested-at-schools/

The job of an American police officer is often to feed the prison system and to generate ticket revenue. There might be some protecting and serving in there too.

All they see are perps. Let the courts sort them out later.

 

Simple Logic: Its far more likely that this cop took a bribe from Buzbee then it is that Rusty Hardin is running the Houston prosecutors office and controlling grand juries.

There are hundreds of former prosecutors working as defense attorneys. Do they run every court in America?

If a story relies heavily on conspiracy theories then always then treat it as such.  (does not mean its not true)

 

Some would have you believe that Hardin and the entire Houston Justice System is 100% for sure corrupt but that police never could be. 👀

 

 

Really no need to get this thread locked by inserting your own opinions about law enforcement, because that’s where this is headed if you do.

[SkippyX]

33 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Really no need to get this thread locked by inserting your own opinions about law enforcement, because that’s where this is headed if you do.

There are lots of links there.

Its just a counterpoint to the same accusations of corruption towards the Houston justice system.

I'm not actually making any accusations unlike others here. The links are real and lying being a part of the police's job is real.

The bias to believe police in court was put out there without a link so here you go:

https://via.library.depaul.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1167&context=jsj&httpsredir=1&referer=

 

I can't quickly find a good link to police lying but its common practice.

Here's one from a law firm. https://thegoolsbylawfirm.com/2016/10/10/the-police-lied-to-me-is-that-even-legal/

 

Maybe you did not like the violent and militaristic phrasing?

https://policeviolencereport.org/

 

How about this one that I left out?  Do your own research on police being accused of Watson-like behavior.

 

Police does not automatically mean truth and right. Even if they might support someone's told you so accusations of other government officers.

 

FWIW I think most police are great and are on the job to protect and serve. They are still people with all flaws that all people have.

I am friends or friendly with police and constables in my home and work communities.

Edited June 11, 2022 by SkippyX

[MWil23]

People who don’t get it don’t get that they don’t get it

[SkippyX]

Everything about Watson is theoretically out of bounds but here we are.

I'm just responding to a mod going way out there with conspiracy theory.

[ET80]

1 hour ago, SkippyX said:

Everything about Watson is theoretically out of bounds but here we are.

I'm just responding to a mod going way out there with conspiracy theory.

 

3 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Did you even READ anything in either this article or the NY Times article? (Once again - rhetorical, I know you did not).

So here, enjoy:

PFT: 

Baker did not testify during the Harris County grand jury proceedings on nine criminal complaints. She said she was told by Stallings that Watson’s attorney, Rusty Hardin, would have objections to Baker testifying before the grand jury. That’s confusing, because the suspect’s lawyer has no standing whatsoever to object to anything the prosecutor does during the grand jury proceedings.

In the event you question the research methods of PFT, here's the NY Times:

Through a public records request, The Times reviewed the communications between Hardin and the prosecutors in Watson’s criminal cases. These messages revealed extensive communication between the two sides and demonstrated, at the least, the value of a well-paid and well-connected lawyer.

In early 2022, Hardin, a former prosecutor himself, began a regular dialogue with Johna Stallings, the Harris County sex crimes prosecutor handling the Watson investigation. In the two months before two different Texas grand juries heard the criminal cases against Watson, Stallings and Hardin met at Hardin’s office, spoke over the phone 12 times and exchanged more than two dozen text messages, according to public records.

Some of their exchanges were peppered with congenial remarks about cases they were trying. Others were more opaque. One day, Stallings asked Hardin if he could chat. He said he was in trial, then asked, “Any problems?” They spoke over the phone twice that day.

The amount of contact between the prosecutor and the defense was noteworthy, said Njeri Mathis Rutledge, a former Harris County prosecutor who is now a professor at South Texas College of Law Houston.

“There are some well-known defense attorneys like a Rusty Hardin that may have gotten a little extra real estate in terms of time, but even given the fact that it was Rusty, that’s still a lot of time,” Rutledge said.

That's at minimum, 36 different contacts (24 texts, 12 phone conversations) in an eight week period. Nobody can tell us WHAT was said, but anyone looking on the outside in can plainly see that Hardin is getting inside the investigation. Multiple legal experts even advise this is a lot. Follow that up with HPD lead detective Kamisha Baker's commentary, and you have to take a logical leap of faith to assume NOTHING happened.

Nobody is going to procure video of Hardin and Stallings in an empty parking garage, smoking cigarettes, wearing trench coats and passing large manilla envelopes and briefcases to each other, but people can put several facts together and see a picture developing. If you need more evidence than this to see how much sway Hardin had over this discussion, then your burden of proof is unrealistic - several legitimate sources who are experts on this process are flat out telling you that you are wrong.

Much easier than responding word for word.

[SkippyX]

FYI on solicitation in Texas.

It was a 3 strikes misdemeanor (4th and on a felony) in Texas before 9/1/21 and a felony after.

I have no idea if that's based on the time of the events or the time of the prosecution.

 

Edited June 11, 2022 by SkippyX

[SkippyX]

Lets talk bias vs corruption.

I get that I am arguing with an omniscient being but lets throw it out for everyone else.

 

Hardin worked for the city in the Prosecutors Office. He ran it, or was the DA, or whatever (he had prestige and power there)

He was also very good at what he did (more clout)

He has established relationships with may people who may still be in that office.

 

Buzbee has worked in the same system for a long time but from outside the prosecutors office as a clients attorney

He also very publicly ran an attack ad style campaign for mayor vs the incumbent at the time and current mayor, Sylvester Turner.

its fair to say he could have agitated the current power structure.

He was also arrested for DUI (or just brought in and given the rich guy treatment, not 100% sure) He was given 12 months of probation and served 8.

He gave campaign money to the guy who reduced his probation.

 

Is it possible and even likely that current members inside the Houston PD, Prosecutors Office, and even some judges like Hardin more than Buzbee? absolutely

Is it possible that this bias has affected their decision making? This is hard to say but again possible.

Can we support corruption charges with the evidence at hand? Not even close.

Its sure sounds good though when you are emotionally invested and always right.

 

Have you heard the curious tale of Warren Moon? Perhaps Hardin did not have his corruption network activated just yet?

That was 1996, just 5 years in private practice and corruption could not stop an indictment.

Would you think he'd have more or less sway now as someone who is 30 years removed from that office?

 

An officer investigated a case, reached her conclusions, and these conclusions were not shared or properly represented to the Grand Jury. (in her opinion)

She is not the prosecutor. She is not the chief of police. She's just one cog in the machine.

How many police investigated this? How many of them support her claims?

Has a whistleblower corruption case been filed by her?

This is all relevant.

 

Edited June 11, 2022 by SkippyX

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

9 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Lets talk bias vs corruption.

I get that I am arguing with an omniscient being but lets throw it out for everyone else.

 

Hardin worked for the city in the Prosecutors Office. He ran it, or was the DA, or whatever (he had prestige and power there)

He was also very good at what he did (more clout)

He has established relationships with may people who may still be in that office.

 

Buzbee has worked in the same system for a long time but from outside the prosecutors office as a clients attorney

He also very publicly ran an attack ad style campaign for mayor vs the incumbent at the time and current mayor, Sylvester Turner.

its fair to say he could have agitated the current power structure.

He was also arrested for DUI (or just brought in and given the rich guy treatment, not 100% sure) He was given 12 months of probation and served 8.

He gave campaign money to the guy who reduced his probation.

 

Is it possible and even likely that current members inside the Houston PD, Prosecutors Office, and even some judges like Hardin more than Buzbee? absolutely

Is it possible that this bias has affected their decision making? This is hard to say but again possible.

Can we support corruption charges with the evidence at hand? Not even close.

Its sure sounds good though when you are emotionally invested and always right.

 

Have you heard the curious tale of Warren Moon? Perhaps Hardin did not have his corruption network activated just yet?

That was 1996, just 5 years in private practice and corruption could not stop an indictment.

Would you think he'd have more or less sway now as someone who is 30 years removed from that office?

 

An officer investigated a case, reached her conclusions, and these conclusions were not shared or properly represented to the Grand Jury. (in her opinion)

She is not the prosecutor. She is not the chief of police. She's just one cog in the machine.

How many police investigated this? How many of them support her claims?

Has a whistleblower corruption case been filed by her?

This is all relevant.

 

at the highest level, what are you even arguing at this point? That Watson is completely innocent? I'm confused.

[Xenos]

10 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

at the highest level, what are you even arguing at this point? That Watson is completely innocent? I'm confused.

[ET80]

31 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Lets talk bias vs corruption.

I get that I am arguing with an omniscient being but lets throw it out for everyone else.

 

Hardin worked for the city in the Prosecutors Office. He ran it, or was the DA, or whatever (he had prestige and power there)

He was also very good at what he did (more clout)

He has established relationships with may people who may still be in that office.

 

Buzbee has worked in the same system for a long time but from outside the prosecutors office as a clients attorney

He also very publicly ran an attack ad style campaign for mayor vs the incumbent at the time and current mayor, Sylvester Turner.

its fair to say he could have agitated the current power structure.

He was also arrested for DUI (or just brought in and given the rich guy treatment, not 100% sure) He was given 12 months of probation and served 8.

He gave campaign money to the guy who reduced his probation.

 

Is it possible and even likely that current members inside the Houston PD, Prosecutors Office, and even some judges like Hardin more than Buzbee? absolutely

Is it possible that this bias has affected their decision making? This is hard to say but again possible.

Can we support corruption charges with the evidence at hand? Not even close.

Its sure sounds good though when you are emotionally invested and always right.

 

Have you heard the curious tale of Warren Moon? Perhaps Hardin did not have his corruption network activated just yet?

That was 1996, just 5 years in private practice and corruption could not stop an indictment.

Would you think he'd have more or less sway now as someone who is 30 years removed from that office?

 

An officer investigated a case, reached her conclusions, and these conclusions were not shared or properly represented to the Grand Jury. (in her opinion)

She is not the prosecutor. She is not the chief of police. She's just one cog in the machine.

How many police investigated this? How many of them support her claims?

Has a whistleblower corruption case been filed by her?

This is all relevant.

 

At this point, I can only determinethat your burden of proof is unrealistic. Nothing short of Rusty Hardin admitting he used his connections to get a favorable outcome in the criminal courts will convince you otherwise - the detective on record, several legal experts in the area telling you this isn't enough for you.

Guess my omnipotent abilities can't reverse minds from being willingly obtuse to credible sources such as the NY Times, actual detectives with HPD and actual legal documentation obtained, citing this as such.

I'll put you back on ignore now. Thanks!

[ET80]

27 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

at the highest level, what are you even arguing at this point? That Watson is completely innocent? I'm confused.

He's saying Rusty Hardin didn't use his influence to help get a favorable outcome for Deshaun Watson in the criminal cases. Despite former prosecutors in the Houston area as well as actual court documents saying otherwise. (Which is like me saying a gravedigger didn't use a shovel to dig holes).

INFLUENCE is exactly why you hire a guy like Rusty Hardin - it's not because of his speaking skills (as demonstrated on 610 when he stated "Happy Endings are part of the job description" or something to that effect). You hire him because every legal name in the country knows who Hardin is, and you also understand that Rusty Hardin is like a Lannister - he always pays his debts. 

"Quid pro quo" is a thing, and no amount of posturing is going to remove that from the current environment.

[SkippyX]

1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

at the highest level, what are you even arguing at this point? That Watson is completely innocent? I'm confused.

That assuming wacky conspiracy theories are proof of his guilt is stupid. This whole thing has been a logic fail from start to finish. Its been a proven guilty at first exercise.

hArDiN iS tEh dEvIl !!!

I don't care if he earns and gets a lifetime ban. Lets have the cases tried in court.

 

I loathe the Cowboys yet I can still see that Zeke got a raw deal. You can point out truck sized holes in process without rooting for or against a side.

 

Objectively people are playing fast and loose with all of this before his day in court.

[Onizuka]

Now with the Johnny trial done with, I think it's only fair they televise all of these civil cases. Make it the next season of Hard Knocks.

[Webmaster]

Let’s get this topic back to focusing on Watson, the Texans and the Browns.   Drop all the discussion  about police, lawyers, and other garbage.