Raiders extend WR Hunter Renfrow (2 years, $32M, $21M gtd)

[NYRaider]

23 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Donald is the household name, for sure, but the Rams D was good through and through. 

Without Kupp, they probably don't make the Superbowl. Dude carried their offense once the injuries piled up. 

He may never replicate his 2021 season, but it's not hyperbolic to say Kupp was the Rams MVP hands down. 

The Rams also had Jalen Ramsey who's an elite all-pro defender. Kupp was their only elite offensive player.

[NYRaider]

Kupp's first three seasons: 196 receptions, 2,596 yards (13.2 ypc), 21 TD

Renfrow's first three seasons: 208 receptions, 2,300 yards (11.1 ypc), 15 TD

[drfrey13]

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

Burrow is in no way shape or form the best QB in the NFL and just led a team to the Super Bowl behind a terrible offensive line. We acquired the best WR in the NFL, what OL was available that's the best at his position? We didn't make any huge additions on the OL but we will likely have three new starters with Parham/Good at OG and Leatherwood at OT. I think the notion that Carr gets skittish after a few hits needs to be laid to rest, he was one of the most hit QBs in the league and had his most productive season last year with limited talent around him. With the addition of Parham who looks like a day one starter, the return of Good, and Leatherwood/James both going into their second years as starters I don't see how we can be worse on the OL then we were last year. 

You say that Ziegler and McDaniels have a 3 year window but that they should've taken a more patient approach in year one? So just waste a year of that window when Carr is in a contract year and we made the playoffs last season? 

The Rams went 9-7 (no playoffs) then 10-6 (got smacked by Green Bay) prior to last season's SB run. The Bengals came out of nowhere to make a run to the Super Bowl and the 49ers were a dropped interception away from making it last year as well. Anything can happen it's just about finding your stride at the right time. As we've seen with the Rams though having elite players and then making the pieces around them work is a recipe for success.

I was talking about your Brady and Mahomes comment that you quoted from Bucksavage.

Parham is a rookie and there is no way to know he is a day 1 starter (would have been a 1st rounder if that was the case), Good is a health risk, and Leatherwood just did not look good.

I believe the notion that Carr had a good year last year is what needs to be laid to rest.  He threw for a lot of yards but that is about it.  We can go over how we made the playoffs again but I still do not think he was the reason why nor do I think we should have resigned him this year unless we got a big discount.  I hope he gets better but this will be the 6th year in a row that I am hoping.

They created the 3 year window by going all in now.  They could have bought another year and went into the retooling with more information if they were patient.

The key piece for the Rams was not a WR.  They had enough talent to make it to the SB with a trash QB.  What put the Rams over the top was Stafford.  The Bengals where a shock but Burrow arguably had a better year than Carrs' best year while getting the protection Carr had in his worst year.  I do not know how well Burrow will hold up if it keeps happening but last year was amazing to watch and he was .2 of a second away from throwing a 49 yard TD pass to Chase to win the SB.  To bad Donald beat to lineman to record the sack in 3.5 seconds.

[NYRaider]

2 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

PParham is a rookie and there is no way to know he is a day 1 starter (would have been a 1st rounder if that was the case), Good is a health risk, and Leatherwood just did not look good.

I believe the notion that Carr had a good year last year is what needs to be laid to rest.  He threw for a lot of yards but that is about it.  We can go over how we made the playoffs again but I still do not think he was the reason why nor do I think we should have resigned him this year unless we got a big discount.  I hope he gets better but this will be the 6th year in a row that I am hoping.

They created the 3 year window by going all in now.  They could have bought another year and went into the retooling with more information if they were patient.

The key piece for the Rams was not a WR.  They had enough talent to make it to the SB with a trash QB.  What put the Rams over the top was Stafford.  The Bengals where a shock but Burrow arguably had a better year than Carrs' best year while getting the protection Carr had in his worst year.  I do not know how well Burrow will hold up if it keeps happening but last year was amazing to watch and he was .2 of a second away from throwing a 49 yard TD pass to Chase to win the SB.  To bad Donald beat to lineman to record the sack in 3.5 seconds.

Parham projects as a day one starter and there are good rookie starters at OG that were taken later in the draft every year, it's one of the easiest positions for guys to transition into the NFL. Gabe Jackson was a third round pick and was a good starter from day one for us. Good's only 31, doesn't have a ton of wear/tear, and the ACL injury was the first significant injury of his career. He also got hurt in September so he has had a bunch of time to get healthy. Leatherwood didn't look good but Kolton Miller sucked as a rookie too, guys can improve. What would you have done this offseason to drastically improve our offensive line?

Carr was 5th in the league in passing yards and kept the team together through all of the adversity we faced. The fact that he had the numbers he did with basically only Renfrow, crap pass blocking, no run game, and made clutch plays in key moments to lead us to the playoffs made last year the best of his career. According to you our OL sucked, Carr sucked, and we had one of the worst defenses in the league so how did we win 10 games?

Cooper Kupp was the Rams best player last season, it's not debatable. The Rams made the Super Bowl three years prior and at the time Goff was playing at an elite level and Gurley was probably the best RB in the NFL, their defense wasn't even that good. Kupp literally made plays in the final seconds of the Bucs game and the Super Bowl to seal the win for the Rams, lol.

[ronjon1990]

6 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Parham projects as a day one starter and there are good rookie starters at OG that were taken later in the draft every year, it's one of the easiest positions for guys to transition into the NFL. Gabe Jackson was a third round pick and was a good starter from day one for us. Good's only 31, doesn't have a ton of wear/tear, and the ACL injury was the first significant injury of his career. He also got hurt in September so he has had a bunch of time to get healthy. Leatherwood didn't look good but Kolton Miller sucked as a rookie too, guys can improve. What would you have done this offseason to drastically improve our offensive line?

Carr was 5th in the league in passing yards and kept the team together through all of the adversity we faced. The fact that he had the numbers he did with basically only Renfrow, crap pass blocking, no run game, and made clutch plays in key moments to lead us to the playoffs made last year the best of his career. According to you our OL sucked, Carr sucked, and we had one of the worst defenses in the league so how did we win 10 games?

Cooper Kupp was the Rams best player last season, it's not debatable. The Rams made the Super Bowl three years prior and at the time Goff was playing at an elite level and Gurley was probably the best RB in the NFL, their defense wasn't even that good. Kupp literally made plays in the final seconds of the Bucs game and the Super Bowl to seal the win for the Rams, lol.

So many people just totally overlook this. 

It's one thing to say Goff couldn't maintain the hot hand. It's one thing to say Stafford was an upgrade. 

But to totally discount that Goff has about a 2.5-3 year run where he looked like a total stud on the rise is just disingenuous. It's like people who swear that Flacco always sucked and was mediocre the entire time he was in Baltimore. 

[Devilshark69]

Yes, but ya know ronjon, making statements like that fits people’s narrative. Dfrey is absolutely entitled to his opinion. However , imo, he will not be happy until Carr is gone deep in his heart. He doesn’t like him and never will. Hell, Carr could win a super bowl and some will still dislike him. And I’m not necessarily talking about guys on this forum, it’s also comments I read at the end of articles etc. some don’t like him cuz he’s too nice, or too churchy, or too “beta”. All ridiculous of course, but people will have their opinion. I hate his fumbles personally, because he hasn’t improved that flaw, he did SLIGHTLY improve his pocket presence/ happy feet.... but only slightly. He’s not perfect, but he’s not jawalrus either. Or Aaron brooks, KFC, tui, billy joe hobert etc. etc. etc. 

[drfrey13]

14 hours ago, NYRaider said:

How did we completely mortgage the future though? We didn't give up any future picks this offseason and have cap space next year. I think Kupp's impact was actually bigger than Donald's for the Rams last season. He broke off a 50 yard gain late in the game against the Bucs that put the Rams in position to kick the game winning field goal and then scored with a minute to go in the Super Bowl to seal the victory. 

I do not think I ever said we HAVE mortgaged our future but rather we should not and the moves this year scare me a little.  If I did I mis-spoke because trading one seasons drafts picks does not destroy your future options but is a good start.  I do not want to do it the way the Rams did because they have mortgaged their future.  Just by the nature of the position you can not say Kupp had more of an impact than Donald if they are both playing at a high level.  Just because he is a WR there is a decent argument to be made that Stafford has more of an impact than Kupp.  You could make the argument for Kupp if Stafford had a year like Carr and he still produced but Stafford had MVP level numbers also.  Kupp's score did not seal the victory.  Donald's sack did.  That would have been the easiest TD of the year for Burrow and Chase if Donald does not make that play.  It was possibly the single biggest defensive play in a Super Bowl ever.

[drfrey13]

10 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Parham projects as a day one starter and there are good rookie starters at OG that were taken later in the draft every year, it's one of the easiest positions for guys to transition into the NFL. Gabe Jackson was a third round pick and was a good starter from day one for us. Good's only 31, doesn't have a ton of wear/tear, and the ACL injury was the first significant injury of his career. He also got hurt in September so he has had a bunch of time to get healthy. Leatherwood didn't look good but Kolton Miller sucked as a rookie too, guys can improve. What would you have done this offseason to drastically improve our offensive line?

Carr was 5th in the league in passing yards and kept the team together through all of the adversity we faced. The fact that he had the numbers he did with basically only Renfrow, crap pass blocking, no run game, and made clutch plays in key moments to lead us to the playoffs made last year the best of his career. According to you our OL sucked, Carr sucked, and we had one of the worst defenses in the league so how did we win 10 games?

Cooper Kupp was the Rams best player last season, it's not debatable. The Rams made the Super Bowl three years prior and at the time Goff was playing at an elite level and Gurley was probably the best RB in the NFL, their defense wasn't even that good. Kupp literally made plays in the final seconds of the Bucs game and the Super Bowl to seal the win for the Rams, lol.

Let's go over this again.  Yes 3rd round guards can start day 1 but if a prospect, even at G, is seen as a high level day 1 starter they go in the first.  Not saying he can't be but to automatically say he is before we have our first practices is jumping the gun.  I really like Good but the guy has missed a ton of time in his career.  Good missed 2 months in 2017 and all of last year.  Medicine has gotten better when it comes to knee injuries but A man that size coming off of a torn ACL over the age of 30 is a risk.  I wanted to bring Good back but I am not 100% sold on him being able to play at the same level.  Not an automatic good player or an injury waiting to happen.  Just be cautious.  People need to stop using Miller as the barometer for rookies that do not look good.  Miller looked good as a rookie plain and simple.  He was an above average starter in the beginning of the year.  It was not until he started getting injured and the biggest idiots in the room decided it was best to keep him on the field and play Parker on the right side.  The games Miller played poorly he should not have been on the field.  Miller+Injuries=Poor Play.  Leatherwood just sucked at RT and RG.  His footwork was even screwed up.  I am not blaming him because I said from the time he was drafted he should start at RT.  Hopefully the new coaches can fix all this but it looks like they may force feed us Parker at RT still.  To fix the O-line I would have done 1 thing and one thing only.  Find players that have actually played at a high level the positions I need them to play.  I find square pegs for square holes.  I am not against Parham but think we needed a little more.  Right now we have 1 stud, 1 returning major injury, 1 player that had a Dr Jekyll Mr Hyde season, a rookie, and 2 guys playing out of position competing for the last spot.  Just like last year I said what could possibly go wrong.

I have had this Carr argument so much and am just going to say this once.  Go back and watch the games.  The other teams circumstances and Carr getting Carlson into FG range had more to do with us winning than anything else.  I have always said Carr is great in between the 20's.  If he wants to take the next step and earn his contract he needs to get better at scoring TDs in the RZ and making something happen when the play breaks down.

I still do not get how you can say Kupp sealed the victory when the Bengals should have won if it was not for Donald on the last play.  He scored the winning TD but the game was not over.  As for 2018 do you really want to focus on the subject at hand which is Donald.  You do realize he had just won back to back DoPY and had over 20 sacks that year.  Goff had a good regular season that year and then crapped the bed in the playoffs.  

Goff 2018 playoffs (3 games): 712 yards 1 TD and 2 Int 55% completions

Stafford 2021 Playoffs (4 games): 1188 yards 9TDs and 3 Ints 70% completions

So I still stand by my comment that the difference between the SB Rams team of 2018 and 2021 is the QB.  The defense also allowed an average of 19 points a game each year.

Once again I do not want to take anything away from Kupp because he had a truly great year and one of the best ever for a WR.  My argument is not against him but rather his position.  

[NYRaider]

Hunter Renfrow contract details:

2022: $3.5M cap hit | $10.9M dead cap

2023: $14M cap hit | $7.9M dead cap

2024: $13.7M cap hit | $1.8M dead cap 

2025/2026: $1.8M cap hits in both years that are signing bonuses 

[drfrey13]

5 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

So many people just totally overlook this. 

It's one thing to say Goff couldn't maintain the hot hand. It's one thing to say Stafford was an upgrade. 

But to totally discount that Goff has about a 2.5-3 year run where he looked like a total stud on the rise is just disingenuous. It's like people who swear that Flacco always sucked and was mediocre the entire time he was in Baltimore. 

Goff had 1 season that he put it all together and that was 2018.  You can say he looked like he could become a stud for 2 of the 3 years but looked like a stud for 1.  But he had to get carried to the SB.  Stafford's 2021 is easily better than anything Goff has ever done.

[NYRaider]

2 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Goff had 1 season that he put it all together and that was 2018.  You can say he looked like he could become a stud for 2 of the 3 years but looked like a stud for 1.  But he had to get carried to the SB.  Stafford's 2021 is easily better than anything Goff has ever done.

Who carried Goff to the Super Bowl?

[NYRaider]

20 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

I still do not get how you can say Kupp sealed the victory when the Bengals should have won if it was not for Donald on the last play.  He scored the winning TD but the game was not over.  As for 2018 do you really want to focus on the subject at hand which is Donald.  You do realize he had just won back to back DoPY and had over 20 sacks that year.  Goff had a good regular season that year and then crapped the bed in the playoffs.  

Donald did it?

 

[drfrey13]

4 hours ago, Devilshark69 said:

Yes, but ya know ronjon, making statements like that fits people’s narrative. Dfrey is absolutely entitled to his opinion. However , imo, he will not be happy until Carr is gone deep in his heart. He doesn’t like him and never will. Hell, Carr could win a super bowl and some will still dislike him. And I’m not necessarily talking about guys on this forum, it’s also comments I read at the end of articles etc. some don’t like him cuz he’s too nice, or too churchy, or too “beta”. All ridiculous of course, but people will have their opinion. I hate his fumbles personally, because he hasn’t improved that flaw, he did SLIGHTLY improve his pocket presence/ happy feet.... but only slightly. He’s not perfect, but he’s not jawalrus either. Or Aaron brooks, KFC, tui, billy joe hobert etc. etc. etc. 

I will be happy when the team starts meeting goals I believe it should.  This is not just Carr.  I wanted Gruden gone because I he has had the same issues as a play caller in the redzone.  For me to be happy with him staying I am on the record saying he needs to let go of play calling duties as well as hiring more competent coordinators and coaches.  I see aspects of certain players/coaches that hold themselves and therefore the team back.  Carr's RZ play and inability to make something happen when plays breakdown are 2 big ones he needs to improve on.  The team had bad stuff happen last year but we also had a situation where other teams had bad circumstances every week they popped up on our schedule.  I have never said Carr is garbage.  What I have said is that he has holes in his game that he needs to improve for me to be happy with him as my QB because those holes need to be filled in order for us to win a championship.  If Carr made it to the playoffs every year for 20 years but you knew he was never going to take the team to the SB or you could have a QB that would only take you to the playoffs half the time but would get you 2 SB victories who would you want as a QB.  Just a hypothetical to see what it is you want.  If I think Carr is good but not good enough to get me where I want to go then yes I want to move on.  This is the line in the sand for things he needs to improve.

[drfrey13]

12 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Who carried Goff to the Super Bowl?

He played like crap in the playoffs so I would say everyone not named Goff carried him in the playoffs.

The defense held the Saints to under 300 yards and 2 TDs

The defense held the Cowboys to 316 yards and 3 TDs.  The Rams also rushed for 273 yards and 3 TDs.

 

[drfrey13]

21 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Donald did it?

 

I was talking about the SB which is why I kept talking about sacking Burrow.  That looked like a pretty good throw also.  Also why I do not like relying on WRs and why I said we should of worked on the o-line before going after Adams.  On that play Carr might throw it away with the pressure coming up the middle.

Edited June 15, 2022 by drfrey13