NYRaider Posted June 24, 2022 Author Share Posted June 24, 2022 Just now, CWood21 said: Lakers are NOT taking on Gordon Hayward's contract without Terry Rozier coming back, and even then that's probably their Plan F or something towards the back. Westbrook is due $47.1M next year, so the Hornets probably need to at least break even if not shed salary. Sending out Gordon Hayward and Kelly Oubre and taking back Westbrook would add an additional $4.4M in salary so that's probably not likely, but it does save Gordon Hayward's $31.5M in 2023-24 season. Adding Mason Plumlee would mean the Lakers are eating an additional $4.7M which is again probably a non-starter. If the Hornets waive Oubre, they're going to be looking at $135.5M which is enough cap flexibility to use the non-taxpayer MLE. So the question becomes, are the Hornets better off dumping Gordon Hayward's additional year or simply dipping far enough below to create flexibility by waiving Oubre. I thought we were talking about a potential Hornets/Lakers/Nets trade scenario. I don't see the Hornets trading Hayward/Rozier strictly for cap relief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted June 24, 2022 Author Share Posted June 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, CWood21 said: As I already showed you earlier, the Hornets are already pushing the luxury tax with a Bridges' extension and not doing anything with Plumlee or Oubre. They won't have the cap flexibility to use the non-tax payer MLE, so they'll be stuck using the taxpayer MLE. And they're still straddled with Hayward's contract next year. I don't think that moving Plumlee/Favors is comparable because the Jazz were still $10M into the tax without Favors on the books. If the Hornets were extremely concerned with moving one of Hayward/Oubre/Plumlee/Rozier for cap saving purposes wouldn't have made sense to package one of them with a pick last night to create cap space? They just used their two most valuable pieces that they could've attached to a contract for cap relief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kampfgeist Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 31 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Teams aren't just going to give the Hornets salary cap relief because they asked for it. They'll need incentive to do so. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the only teams with large enough TPEs to acquire Oubre is Boston (Evan Fournier). Teams with projected cap space are Detroit, Orlando, Indiana, San Antonio, and Portland I believe. None of those teams are going to take on Oubre for the sake of taking him on, so they'll need to attach draft picks to move him. Or they can flip Gordon Hayward for Russell Westbrook and shave a year off Hayward's deal and not give up any picks. No one is arguing the first point, are they? They can also re-sign Bridges without moving off any salary and move off of Hayward's expiring next year or even around the trade deadline (obviously providing he's healthy - which is not likely). The important point is they do not HAVE to shed any salary to fit Bridges and their draft moves suggest they intend to do just that. They do have the option of waiving Oubre if they want to open minutes for Bouk but I don't think they'd do that to save $7.6, they may not re-sign Cody Martin though which frees up the minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 5 minutes ago, NYRaider said: I thought we were talking about a potential Hornets/Lakers/Nets trade scenario. I don't see the Hornets trading Hayward/Rozier strictly for cap relief. I don't think I ever proposed a Lakers/Hornets/Nets scenario. I mentioned the Lakers/Thunder/Nets scenario that Eric Pincus laid out. I think it's probably more likely that we could see a Lakers/Pacers/Hornets scenario in which Terry Rozier and Buddy Hield land in LA, Gordon Hayward goes to Indiana, and Russell Westbrook goes to Charlotte. There's additional salary fodder that could be added if the teams wanted. The Hornets are clearly having buyers' remorse with Hayward and probably aren't far behind with Rozier. LaMelo Ball is a budding star, and Bridges is his backcourt mate. They're paying him a TON of money to either play the off-ball guard spot or an expensive 6th man. I believe this would create significant cap space next offseason for the Hornets as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted June 24, 2022 Author Share Posted June 24, 2022 46 minutes ago, Kampfgeist said: Hornets can sign Bridges now or shouldn't be hard to move off of Oubre at 12.6 and gain some kind of asset or even cut him Jun 30th and save 7.6 if they wanted too. They do not have to make any moves at this point to re-sign Bridges They didn't ship out #13 for beans last night without the intention of retaining Bridges. If they thought they were losing Bridges, Griffin or Eason would be a Hornet Why didn't you attach salary in that trade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, Kampfgeist said: No one is arguing the first point, are they? They can also re-sign Bridges without moving off any salary and move off of Hayward's expiring next year or even around the trade deadline (obviously providing he's healthy - which is not likely). The important point is they do not HAVE to shed any salary to fit Bridges and their draft moves suggest they intend to do just that. They do have the option of waiving Oubre if they want to open minutes for Bouk but I don't think they'd do that to save $7.6, they may not re-sign Cody Martin though which frees up the minutes. If @NYRaider isn't arguing that, then he's doing a terrible job explaining that. As I mentioned a page (or two) back, the Hornets as currently constructed will be at $143.1M in guaranteed salary which means they wouldn't be able to use the taxpayer MLE since it'd hard cap them up against the apron. If they waived Kelly Oubre, that'd create an additional $7.6M which would give them enough room to use the non-taxpayer MLE but they'd still be straddled with Gordon Hayward's contract next year instead of having Westbrook's expiring contract coming off the books. The Hornets would effectively be giving up long-term cap flexibility in favor of short-term cap flexibility. But LIS, the Lakers don't want Hayward by himself IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted June 24, 2022 Author Share Posted June 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, CWood21 said: I don't think I ever proposed a Lakers/Hornets/Nets scenario. I mentioned the Lakers/Thunder/Nets scenario that Eric Pincus laid out. I think it's probably more likely that we could see a Lakers/Pacers/Hornets scenario in which Terry Rozier and Buddy Hield land in LA, Gordon Hayward goes to Indiana, and Russell Westbrook goes to Charlotte. There's additional salary fodder that could be added if the teams wanted. The Hornets are clearly having buyers' remorse with Hayward and probably aren't far behind with Rozier. LaMelo Ball is a budding star, and Bridges is his backcourt mate. They're paying him a TON of money to either play the off-ball guard spot or an expensive 6th man. I believe this would create significant cap space next offseason for the Hornets as well. I just think if the Hornets were going to attach assets to shed salary they would've done it when they helped the Knicks shed salary by sending the #13 pick to the Pistons for peanuts in return. Bridges isn't a guard he's a 3/4 and probably best suited to be a stretch 4, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kampfgeist Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, CWood21 said: They're paying him a TON of money to either play the off-ball guard spot or an expensive 6th man. Who are you referring to here? Rozier or Bridges? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted June 24, 2022 Author Share Posted June 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, CWood21 said: If @NYRaider isn't arguing that, then he's doing a terrible job explaining that. As I mentioned a page (or two) back, the Hornets as currently constructed will be at $143.1M in guaranteed salary which means they wouldn't be able to use the taxpayer MLE since it'd hard cap them up against the apron. If they waived Kelly Oubre, that'd create an additional $7.6M which would give them enough room to use the non-taxpayer MLE but they'd still be straddled with Gordon Hayward's contract next year instead of having Westbrook's expiring contract coming off the books. The Hornets would effectively be giving up long-term cap flexibility in favor of short-term cap flexibility. But LIS, the Lakers don't want Hayward by himself IMO. How are they sacrificing long term cap flexibility? Hayward is only under contract for 2 more seasons and Oubre/Plumlee come off of their books next offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: I just think if the Hornets were going to attach assets to shed salary they would've done it when they helped the Knicks shed salary by sending the #13 pick to the Pistons for peanuts in return. Bridges isn't a guard he's a 3/4 and probably best suited to be a stretch 4, lol. That's my point. IF Charlotte was going to deal draft capital to create cap flexibility, why wouldn't they have done that last night? Hell, they could have waived Plumlee prior to his contract guarnateeing. But they didn't. The Hornets chose draft assets over cap flexibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: How are they sacrificing long term cap flexibility? Hayward is only under contract for 2 more seasons and Oubre/Plumlee come off of their books next offseason. Westbrook has 1 year, $47.1M left on his contract. Gordon Hayward has 2 years, ~$60M left on his books. Westbrook is a GIANT get out-of-jail free card. The problem is the Lakers don't want Hayward by himself. If the Lakers called up the Hornets right now and offered Russell Westbrook for Kelly Oubre, Gordon Hayward, and Mason Plumlee, what would the Hornets say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 4 minutes ago, Kampfgeist said: Who are you referring to here? Rozier or Bridges? That was in reference to Rozier. Unless you think that the Hornets can play a backcourt of Rozier, Ball, and Bridges together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted June 24, 2022 Author Share Posted June 24, 2022 1 minute ago, CWood21 said: That's my point. IF Charlotte was going to deal draft capital to create cap flexibility, why wouldn't they have done that last night? Hell, they could have waived Plumlee prior to his contract guarnateeing. But they didn't. The Hornets chose draft assets over cap flexibility. But they probably could've dumped Rozier, possibly Hayward, and definitely Oubre/Plumlee with the 13th pick and chose not to do it. There's also a realistic scenario that they send Bridges somewhere in a S&T with a young player and draft capital coming back in return. Possibly to the Pistons for Bey/picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 Just now, NYRaider said: But they probably could've dumped Rozier, possibly Hayward, and definitely Oubre/Plumlee with the 13th pick and chose not to do it. There's also a realistic scenario that they send Bridges somewhere in a S&T with a young player and draft capital coming back in return. Possibly to the Pistons for Bey/picks. Except the Knicks wanted cap flexibility too. They want to add Jalen Brunson to their roster. And the Hornets are not S&Ting Bridges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted June 24, 2022 Author Share Posted June 24, 2022 1 minute ago, CWood21 said: That was in reference to Rozier. Unless you think that the Hornets can play a backcourt of Rozier, Ball, and Bridges together. Miles Bridges is a combo forward, he's 6'7" 230, lol. LaMelo is also 6'7" which is why they've been able to play Rozier/Ball together. I've literally never heard anyone refer to Bridges as a guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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