mdonnelly21 Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 Best first round picks according to NBC Sports Chicago #1. Jerry Rice #2. Peyton Manning #3. Lawrence Taylor #4. Walter Payton #5. John Elway #6. Ronnie Lott #7. Emmitt Smith #8. Deion Sanders #9. Anthony Munoz #10. Ray Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdonnelly21 Posted July 29, 2022 Author Share Posted July 29, 2022 (edited) It's really challenging comparing different positions lead alone defensive and offensive players. My list would go something like this #1. Jerry Rice #2. Lawrence Taylor #3. Walter Payton #4. Peyton Manning #5. Ray Lewis #6. Deion Sanders #7. Anthony Munoz #8. John Elway #9. Ronnie Lott #10. Emmitt Smith Edited July 29, 2022 by mdonnelly21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 I don't get it. Best based on what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdonnelly21 Posted July 29, 2022 Author Share Posted July 29, 2022 1 hour ago, seminoles1 said: I don't get it. Best based on what? Probably best Career is my estimate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 3 minutes ago, mdonnelly21 said: Probably best Career is my estimate. So it's just a list of the best players ever essentially, outside of a tiny fraction of outliers like Brady. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 1 hour ago, seminoles1 said: So it's just a list of the best players ever essentially, outside of a tiny fraction of outliers like Brady. I'm glad you asked because I was wondering the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 Draft picks are a team thing. Manning does not make the top 10 IMO. He got his first coach fired and wound up with 3 TD passes in 4 Super Bowls. He was carried to his Colts SB win (3 TDs 7 picks). He's a top 5 QB overall for his regular season record and statistics but he's not a top 10 pick on this list IMO. I'd love to see a simulation of all of Manning's playoff games with 2010-2014 Flacco (24 TDs to 4 picks) or 04-11 Brees or 11-17 Alex Smith. 3 rings? 4? I like to rip on Rodgers playoff failures but I'd guess he would have 2 or 3 SBs with those Colts as well. His brother (16-5 TD INT from 07-16) is literally a .500 QB who only won playoff games in 2 years but he has a better playoff resume. Jerry Rice Lawrence Taylor Jim Brown Walter Payton Ronnie Lott Pick a 70's Steeler, I will go Joe Greene as the one who started the run on amazing 1st round picks Aaron Donald (we only get to grade him on 8 seasons so far and they are incredible) Deion Sanders Barry Sanders Troy Aikman (you take his 126.4, 104, and 106.1 Lombardi runs over anything Manning did) Bradshaw and Elway are close here I could revise this 100 times but this is what I have now. Its really hard to value O-lineman like Munoz compared to players with stats. FWIW, Peyton Manning would probably be around 18-22 on my list. He was an awesome regular season QB (and had 4 great playoff games, including that AFCCG comeback) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdonnelly21 Posted July 31, 2022 Author Share Posted July 31, 2022 18 hours ago, SkippyX said: Draft picks are a team thing. Manning does not make the top 10 IMO. He got his first coach fired and wound up with 3 TD passes in 4 Super Bowls. He was carried to his Colts SB win (3 TDs 7 picks). He's a top 5 QB overall for his regular season record and statistics but he's not a top 10 pick on this list IMO. I'd love to see a simulation of all of Manning's playoff games with 2010-2014 Flacco (24 TDs to 4 picks) or 04-11 Brees or 11-17 Alex Smith. 3 rings? 4? I like to rip on Rodgers playoff failures but I'd guess he would have 2 or 3 SBs with those Colts as well. His brother (16-5 TD INT from 07-16) is literally a .500 QB who only won playoff games in 2 years but he has a better playoff resume. Jerry Rice Lawrence Taylor Jim Brown Walter Payton Ronnie Lott Pick a 70's Steeler, I will go Joe Greene as the one who started the run on amazing 1st round picks Aaron Donald (we only get to grade him on 8 seasons so far and they are incredible) Deion Sanders Barry Sanders Troy Aikman (you take his 126.4, 104, and 106.1 Lombardi runs over anything Manning did) Bradshaw and Elway are close here I could revise this 100 times but this is what I have now. Its really hard to value O-lineman like Munoz compared to players with stats. FWIW, Peyton Manning would probably be around 18-22 on my list. He was an awesome regular season QB (and had 4 great playoff games, including that AFCCG comeback) I'd be very curios to see your top 15 All time QB list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 10 minutes ago, mdonnelly21 said: I'd be very curios to see your top 15 All time QB list. Manning would be top 5 and Aikman would not be top 10. (maybe 15-20 range?) I don't rate QBs and draft picks the same way. Its tough to rate Otto Graham against Terry Bradshaw against Drew Brees due to eras and how they were used and what they did. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 Very odd Ogden is not on that list, I would say as a player he might be better than Munoz was. And what is it based off of winning or long term success? Also Barry Sanders was arguably a better back that both Walter and Emmitt considering he did not play that long and if he did he would be the top ahead of Emmitt and Walter probably easily in terms of stats. Let us say best all time by position as 1st round picks, might look like this. QB Peyton Manning RB Barry Sanders WR Jerry Rice WR Randy Moss TE Tony Gonzalez OT Jonathan Ogden OG Bruce Matthews C Maurkice Pouncey OG John Hannah OT Anthony Munoz DE Reggie White DT Aaron Donald DT Warren Sapp DE Bruce Smith OLB Lawrence Taylor ILB **** Butkus OLB Derrick Thomas CB Deion Sanders CB Rod Woodson SS Ronnie Lott FS Ed Reed Hard with the 4/3 or the 3/4 D, have to 3/4 OLBs but two 4/3 DEs, could maybe take off Bruce Smith and add Ray Lewis as the other 3/4 ILB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdonnelly21 Posted August 1, 2022 Author Share Posted August 1, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, SkippyX said: Manning would be top 5 and Aikman would not be top 10. (maybe 15-20 range?) I don't rate QBs and draft picks the same way. Its tough to rate Otto Graham against Terry Bradshaw against Drew Brees due to eras and how they were used and what they did. Terry Bradshaw isn't even a top 25 QB of all time. The dude had the greatest supporting cast of all time when you combined defense/offense. He had TWO more TD's then INTs for his career. TWO. If his teams didn't have 4 SBs he'd be viewed as a Brad Johnson/Trent Dilfer type historically. Edited August 1, 2022 by mdonnelly21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 1 hour ago, mdonnelly21 said: Terry Bradshaw isn't even a top 25 QB of all time. The dude had the greatest supporting cast of all time when you combined defense/offense. He had TWO more TD's then INTs for his career. TWO. If his teams didn't have 4 SBs he'd be viewed as a Brad Johnson/Trent Dilfer type historically. You know 1 to 1 TD INT was good in the 1970's, right? Watch highlights of what you could do to receivers. Research what the Raiders would do to Lynn Swann for one example. Staubach was the exception (and I'd put him ahead of Bradshaw) but that's more on Staubach being the Steve Young of the 1970s. Stabler had 194 TDs to 222 picks Namath had 173 to 220 In 1976 the average team put up 15.4 TDs and 17.8 picks. In 2006 this was 20.3 to 16.3. In 2016 this was 24.6 to 13.0. Bradshaw was a beast in those SBs. They win 1 or 2 instead of 4 without him. Watch highlights of those games. Pay attention to the beating he takes and keeps going and keeps launching bombs. Bradshaw's 4 SB playoff run QB ratings were 94.9, 68.4, 104.1, and 98.5 in the 1970s when 65.0 was the average QB rating in 1978 Manning's 4 SB playoff run QB ratings were 70.5, 99.0, 94.2, and 75.4 in an era when 84.1 was the average in 2010 Saying those Steelers teams were loaded does not mean much without also saying that Dallas, Oakland, and Miami were also loaded. I'd love to see a list of teams that won the SB who were not loaded. Think twice about your first answer since they won 2 in 5 years. How many possible HoF players were on last years Rams team? How about the Bucs the year before? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 If it’s based off the draft pick, it should be Elway or Bradshaw at the top. The teams that drafted then got 4 and 5 Super Bowl appearances out of it and multiple rings. Peyton was a better player but the Colts only got one title and one other SB appearance out of his run there. Even Rice, they already won two titles without him and were so stacked during the other 3 that it’s hard to believe they don’t go at least 2 out of 3 if he wasn’t there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 23 hours ago, mdonnelly21 said: He had TWO more TD's then INTs for his career. TWO. If his teams didn't have 4 SBs he'd be viewed as a Brad Johnson/Trent Dilfer type historically. Yeah, and that compares pretty favorably to his contemporaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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