Who would you say is the second best Head Coach in the NFL?

[Jeezla]

 

Mike Tomlin. It'll probably be Vrabel if he ever gets a QB in a tier above Tanny. Pittsburgh might not be good this year, but they will play better than they should with what they have at QB.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Jeezla

[SkippyX]

Its clearly without any doubt Reid.  McVay might be 3rd but Reid has now taken 2 teams to conference championships 4 years in a row. Mahomes is great. McNabb was a anchor. Reid did not get to his 4th SB because Dee Ford is a moron. McVay got to 2 because a few refs were morons  (yes the Saints still had a chance but the no call was a gift) Reid already had 182 wins and 11 playoff wins before Mahomes started a game.

 

Any mental gymnastics required to put McVay ahead of Reid instead puts McVay ahead of BB (insane recency bias)

Of course we can revisit this in the future. I'd prefer to revisit it after McVay has 3 years without Donald.

 

During McVay's career:

• Wins: Reid 60  McVay 55  BB 53
• Playoff wins: Reid 8  McVay 7  BB 5
• SB wins: Reid 1  McVay 1  BB 1
• SBs: Reid 2  McVay 2  BB 2
• Has 1 of the 3 best players of the last 5 years on his team: Reid 1 McVay 1 BB 3/5ths

Extend this back 1 or 2 or 3 years and BB of course destroys the both of them.

 

[Nabbs4u]

12 hours ago, LeotheLion said:

I'm basing it off the whole Chiefs/Rams tenure. McVay won the same amount of SBs and conference championships as Reid in 4 less years. Reid has won 2 more playoff games than McVay.

Why are you continuing to base your answer on the "start" of their respective careers as a Chief/Ram rather then the current 5 years they have coached since Mcvay became a HC?

Was the question who is the 2nd best HC in NFL history to start their careers? Or who is the 2nd best HC in the NFL currently?

If it's currently,  as Skippy posted above it's still Reid.

[CP3MVP]

On 8/15/2022 at 10:47 PM, SkippyX said:

Its clearly without any doubt Reid.  McVay might be 3rd but Reid has now taken 2 teams to conference championships 4 years in a row. Mahomes is great. McNabb was a anchor. Reid did not get to his 4th SB because Dee Ford is a moron. McVay got to 2 because a few refs were morons  (yes the Saints still had a chance but the no call was a gift) Reid already had 182 wins and 11 playoff wins before Mahomes started a game.

 

Any mental gymnastics required to put McVay ahead of Reid instead puts McVay ahead of BB (insane recency bias)

Of course we can revisit this in the future. I'd prefer to revisit it after McVay has 3 years without Donald.

 

During McVay's career:

• Wins: Reid 60  McVay 55  BB 53
• Playoff wins: Reid 8  McVay 7  BB 5
• SB wins: Reid 1  McVay 1  BB 1
• SBs: Reid 2  McVay 2  BB 2
• Has 1 of the 3 best players of the last 5 years on his team: Reid 1 McVay 1 BB 3/5ths

Extend this back 1 or 2 or 3 years and BB of course destroys the both of them.

 

Maybe if their historically great offense wasn’t shut out for an entire half than Reid doesn’t have to rely on Dee Ford not going offsides. As good as Aaron donald is, his impact is nowhere close to a superstar QB. They were *** the year before Reid got there with Donald lol

Edited August 17, 2022 by CP3MVP

[CP3MVP]

On 8/15/2022 at 9:02 AM, Nabbs4u said:

You're getting off track. 

 

His fist five years is way better than Reid’s in KC. He also won a Super Bowl without a All time QB. He got to a Super Bowl with Jared Goff who everyone thinks sucks. 
 

So I’m assuming you concede how bad the NFC Was during that time lol. There’s ZERO chance he gets to 4 straight Conference finals from 18-21 with those teams 

Edited August 17, 2022 by CP3MVP

[LeotheLion]

On 8/16/2022 at 12:44 AM, Nabbs4u said:

Why are you continuing to base your answer on the "start" of their respective careers as a Chief/Ram rather then the current 5 years they have coached since Mcvay became a HC?

Was the question who is the 2nd best HC in NFL history to start their careers? Or who is the 2nd best HC in the NFL currently?

If it's currently,  as Skippy posted above it's still Reid.

Again, I am not basing it off the start of their tenures with their teams. You literally said what has McVay done that Reid hasn't done in KC. So I am looking at all of Reid's time in KC, not just his time with Mahomes. Obviously since Reid has coached longer he should have more bulk wins/accomplishments. Here are your answers though:

1. Win a SB within 5 years

2. Take 2 different QBs to the SB (this is the clear separator between the 2. McVay proved he didn't need an alien QB to reach the elite tier.)

[SkippyX]

2 hours ago, CP3MVP said:

Maybe if their historically great offense wasn’t shut out for an entire half than Reid doesn’t have to rely on Dee Ford not going offsides. As good as Aaron donald is, his impact is nowhere close to a superstar QB. They were *** the year before Reid got there with Donald lol

You are talking about 1 half of 1 of 35 playoff games? The problem is coaches who are not AR don't get to that point because AR teams can score in 13 seconds. Every coach in NFL history relies on his players not going offsides on game changing plays.

I can point to BB going for it on 4th down at his own 25 or him not kicking FGs vs Denver in 2015. No coach is perfect.

McVay might have been 1-1 in the playoffs last year without a stupid zero blitz call. You can question everything.

 

What McVay has done in 5 years is not all that special. Lots of others have done the same or better.

Reid's results have literally been better than him the last 5 years. Its just fact.

[SkippyX]

6 minutes ago, LeotheLion said:

Again, I am not basing it off the start of their tenures with their teams. You literally said what has McVay done that Reid hasn't done in KC. So I am looking at all of Reid's time in KC, not just his time with Mahomes. Obviously since Reid has coached longer he should have more bulk wins/accomplishments. Here are your answers though:

1. Win a SB within 5 years

2. Take 2 different QBs to the SB (this is the clear separator between the 2. McVay proved he didn't need an alien QB to reach the elite tier.)

We are not playing lets look at years 1 to 5 and caring about 2013 or 1999. Who is the best coach now was the question.

The guy who was better than McVay during McVay's entire career is clearly better than McVay. Its that simple. Or are you saying McVay is the best  coach on training wheels? There are no training wheels for coaches. Maybe McVay is better than Don Shula in Baltimore? Who cares?

 

No argument that Mahomes is a generational player survives the Aaron Donald counter who is also a generational player. 

If Donald tweaked a knee on the 2nd to last defensive play then the Bengals win the SB on a deep TD pass to Chase (who was wide open).

I can say McVay loses in the 2nd round if Cooper Kupp was not the greatest 1 year WR in NFL history? How does that change what McVay did? It doesn't.

I can say McVay is 3-3 in the playoffs without Von Miller.

What you are all trying to do here is to make excuses. That game never ends.

 

[CP3MVP]

12 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

You are talking about 1 half of 1 of 35 playoff games? The problem is coaches who are not AR don't get to that point because AR teams can score in 13 seconds. Every coach in NFL history relies on his players not going offsides on game changing plays.

I can point to BB going for it on 4th down at his own 25 or him not kicking FGs vs Denver in 2015. No coach is perfect.

McVay might have been 1-1 in the playoffs last year without a stupid zero blitz call. You can question everything.

 

What McVay has done in 5 years is not all that special. Lots of others have done the same or better.

Reid's results have literally been better than him the last 5 years. Its just fact.

You were the one who chose to blame Dee Ford lol, I said if Andy’s historically great offense wasn’t shut out an entire half by a good not great defense he wouldn’t have to worry about that. The 2018 Patriots defense isn’t the 2000 Ravens
 

What Mcvay has done the first five years has absolutely been special because he inherited a 4-12 dumpster fire. Andy Reid inherited one too, but the big difference is Sean was successful  in the playoffs without a superstar QB 

[CP3MVP]

6 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

We are not playing lets look at years 1 to 5 and caring about 2013 or 1999. Who is the best coach now was the question.

The guy who was better than McVay during McVay's entire career is clearly better than McVay. Its that simple. Or are you saying McVay is the best  coach on training wheels? There are no training wheels for coaches. Maybe McVay is better than Don Shula in Baltimore? Who cares?

 

No argument that Mahomes is a generational player survives the Aaron Donald counter who is also a generational player. 

If Donald tweaked a knee on the 2nd to last defensive play then the Bengals win the SB on a deep TD pass to Chase (who was wide open).

I can say McVay loses in the 2nd round if Cooper Kupp was not the greatest 1 year WR in NFL history? How does that change what McVay did? It doesn't.

I can say McVay is 3-3 in the playoffs without Von Miller.

What you are all trying to do here is to make excuses. That game never ends.

 

Yeah generational talent at DT is not the same as QB. Mahomes and Donald are not equal in value anyway you try to slice this. The Rams were garbage with Donald in 2016 with him playing 16 games. Their defense was also crap

[LeotheLion]

1 minute ago, SkippyX said:

We are not playing lets look at years 1 to 5 and caring about 2013 or 1999. Who is the best coach now was the question.

The guy who was better than McVay during McVay's entire career is clearly better than McVay. Its that simple. Or are you saying McVay is the best  coach on training wheels? There are no training wheels for coaches. Maybe McVay is better than Don Shula in Baltimore? Who cares?

 

No argument that Mahomes is a generational player survives the Aaron Donald counter who is also a generational player. 

If Donald tweaked a knee on the 2nd to last defensive play then the Bengals win the SB on a deep TD pass to Chase (who was wide open).

I can say McVay loses in the 2nd round if Cooper Kupp was not the greatest 1 year WR in NFL history? How does that change what McVay did? It doesn't.

I can say McVay is 3-3 in the playoffs without Von Miller.

What you are all trying to do here is to make excuses. That game never ends.

 

This is such an insane argument. I'm guessing Chris Jones is also better than Donald because his teams have won more?

[SkippyX]

1 minute ago, CP3MVP said:

Yeah generational talent at DT is not the same as QB. Mahomes and Donald are not equal in value anyway you try to slice this. The Rams were garbage with Donald in 2016 with him playing 16 games. Their defense was also crap

Good luck on selling that Donald does not have a huge impact.

I wish we had some SB clinching play from last year to demonstrate this.

[SkippyX]

2 minutes ago, LeotheLion said:

This is such an insane argument. I'm guessing Chris Jones is also better than Donald because his teams have won more?

Chris Jones is not a coach. Straw Man is not a valid argument. Do you measure a coach by something other than wins, or playoff wins, or Super Bowls?

How about division wins? McVay 3 Reid 5

McVay is an offensive genius? Reid is better

McVay is a bit of a QB whisperer? Reid is better. (Foles was drafted by Howie/AR and spent 2 years at AR University (2012 and 2016) It worked out well for my team.)

 

McVay's growing a coaching tree?  Reid's tree is massive including Harbaugh and McDermott.

In 2012 Harbaugh was McVay (SB winner, 54-26, 9-4 in the playoffs)

McDermott might be the next guy the way Buffalo is going. (it won't be fair though because he has Allen and Von Miller   ) McDermott stumbled in year 2 but he is 34-15 with 3 playoff wins in his last 3. If he wins this year he is right there with McVay.

 

There is literally nothing to make McVay better than Reid besides "I can only look back to last season"

Both guys lost a combined 3 SBs to some scrub named Brady. Do we want to pretend McVay's 3 point outing was a better SB loss?

 

 

[LeotheLion]

5 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Chris Jones is not a coach. Straw Man is not a valid argument. Do you measure a coach by something other than wins, or playoff wins, or Super Bowls?

I look at context and how well they are getting the most of the roster. If it was just about results, would you say that Zac Taylor was a better coach than Reid last year?

And if we did only measure by wins, playoff wins, and SBs, McVay averages more wins per year, more playoff wins per year, and more SBs per year. So it seems like Reid's only argument is bulk stats.

[Nabbs4u]

On 8/15/2022 at 10:47 PM, SkippyX said:

During McVay's career:

• Wins: Reid 60  McVay 55  BB 53
• Playoff wins: Reid 8  McVay 7  BB 5
• SB wins: Reid 1  McVay 1  BB 1
• SBs: Reid 2  McVay 2  BB 2
• Has 1 of the 3 best players of the last 5 years on his team: Reid 1 McVay 1 BB 3/5ths

This narrative they have going is actually kinda cute. Despite these numbers backing everything up.

My question now is, who's #2 behind McVay with thier brilliant logic? If Sean is better then then Andy because he took 2 separate QB to the SB winning 1 and Andy supposedly only won because of a Generational QB. Doesn't that same brilliant analysis apply to Bill Belichick from 17' till now with his 1 SB ring only because of Tom?