Fire Dennis Allen

[JMG5]

5 hours ago, Kingram said:

Honestly...Division is there for the taking, and it seems like the Saints might've taken a big step over the mini-bye. The defense is very much back and should only get better with Lattimore coming back.

They need to show some consistency before I put any faith in them taking the division.

5 hours ago, Kingram said:

Dalton is definitely the best option moving forward and once again

100%. He makes the occasional stupid throw, but he gets Kamara involved and keeps the chains moving. Our offense has actually been solid since he became the starter.

5 hours ago, Kingram said:

the Saints might have themselves a franchise changing draft class.

If Penning is a legit starting LT we absolutely crushed this draft. Chris Olave, Trevor Penning and Alontae Taylor all look like potential cornerstone players.

Sucks that we don't have a 1st this upcoming season, but hitting on their first 3 picks would definitely make that a little easier to swallow. Olave has been amazing and exactly as advertised, if not better. Taylor has shown a lot of promise these last few games. His tackling and instincts are very good and he actually gets his head around when in coverage. Jury is still out on Penning, but I'm optimistic.

[Kingram]

15 hours ago, JMG5 said:

They need to show some consistency before I put any faith in them taking the division.

100%. He makes the occasional stupid throw, but he gets Kamara involved and keeps the chains moving. Our offense has actually been solid since he became the starter.

Sucks that we don't have a 1st this upcoming season, but hitting on their first 3 picks would definitely make that a little easier to swallow. Olave has been amazing and exactly as advertised, if not better. Taylor has shown a lot of promise these last few games. His tackling and instincts are very good and he actually gets his head around when in coverage. Jury is still out on Penning, but I'm optimistic.

I have a hot take that Penning will be the best player for us from this class. He struggled a little in pass pro in pre-season but you can't teach the way he absolutely bulldozes human beings. He's going to be an absolute beast. 

[Kingram]

15 hours ago, JMG5 said:

He has been playing so well of late. Haven't noticed many mental lapses like in the first couple of weeks.

Ruiz is legit playing like a Pro Bowl OG...He's been a huge development 

[whodatworm23]

Dam... Sounds like you boys not liking DA these days! 🤣 

[Kingram]

16 hours ago, whodatworm23 said:

Dam... Sounds like you boys not liking DA these days! 🤣 

I actually think DA could right the ship. I think players are taking more of a leadership role (Kamara, Jordan) to fire up the team. Payton was a rah-rah guy, just because DA isn't doesn't mean he will fail. That will just fall more on the players now, which they seem to be taking control of. I haven't seen an issue in game from DA, he isn't making bad calls or mishandling timeouts/challenges. This team was just making mental lapses and failing to do the simple things, which obviously falls on DA...but if we show up on MNF against the Ravens I'll be pulling for DA to keep the job. 

[whodatworm23]

1 hour ago, Kingram said:

I actually think DA could right the ship. I think players are taking more of a leadership role (Kamara, Jordan) to fire up the team. Payton was a rah-rah guy, just because DA isn't doesn't mean he will fail. That will just fall more on the players now, which they seem to be taking control of. I haven't seen an issue in game from DA, he isn't making bad calls or mishandling timeouts/challenges. This team was just making mental lapses and failing to do the simple things, which obviously falls on DA...but if we show up on MNF against the Ravens I'll be pulling for DA to keep the job. 

I took an unbiased look at the situation DA inherited in NOLA and to be honest there's alot of blame to go around...

 

First, the front office as we all know has restructured so many contracts pushing money into future years creating multiple bad untradeable contracts over the last 5-7 years to the point where there really isn't much more wiggle room left and the time has come to pay on that debt. In the meantime Loomis has allowed this Saints roster to become one of the oldest in the NFL. With that you become really susceptible to injury.

 

Sean Payton seen this coming down the pipe and opted to bail a year early rather than a year too late. 

 

All this was understandable when the franchise felt they were in a championship bubble with Payton and Brees on the team but Loomis doubling down on this method this offseason, not only continuing to push money down the line but also trading premium picks over the next two years is a fireable offense in my opinion but I digress...

 

DA was hired to keep the ship afloat not because he was seen as a top HC candidate. I feel we are a long way away before we know exactly whats gonna happen moving fwd. The win against the Raiders was nice but can they continue that? I'm not so sure. If they end the season on a losing streak and the decision is made to rebuild, is DA truly the guy your gonna do that with? I think that would be a mistake as well. The scary part is that Loomis has now put the team into a position where they can't rebuild even if thats what they need to do. With no cap space and no picks they are really banking on being able to get a nice package for Sean Payton this offseason. I feel Loomis will continue to double down on this at least for the next two years until they get out from under some of the contracts that are anchoring this team down.

[Kingram]

18 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

I took an unbiased look at the situation DA inherited in NOLA and to be honest there's alot of blame to go around...

 

First, the front office as we all know has restructured so many contracts pushing money into future years creating multiple bad untradeable contracts over the last 5-7 years to the point where there really isn't much more wiggle room left and the time has come to pay on that debt. In the meantime Loomis has allowed this Saints roster to become one of the oldest in the NFL. With that you become really susceptible to injury.

 

Sean Payton seen this coming down the pipe and opted to bail a year early rather than a year too late. 

 

All this was understandable when the franchise felt they were in a championship bubble with Payton and Brees on the team but Loomis doubling down on this method this offseason, not only continuing to push money down the line but also trading premium picks over the next two years is a fireable offense in my opinion but I digress...

 

DA was hired to keep the ship afloat not because he was seen as a top HC candidate. I feel we are a long way away before we know exactly whats gonna happen moving fwd. The win against the Raiders was nice but can they continue that? I'm not so sure. If they end the season on a losing streak and the decision is made to rebuild, is DA truly the guy your gonna do that with? I think that would be a mistake as well. The scary part is that Loomis has now put the team into a position where they can't rebuild even if thats what they need to do. With no cap space and no picks they are really banking on being able to get a nice package for Sean Payton this offseason. I feel Loomis will continue to double down on this at least for the next two years until they get out from under some of the contracts that are anchoring this team down.

I don't think the lack of a first is a big issue, because it looks like you absolutely nailed this draft class...once again. I don't think the Saints will ever be in a long rebuild because they're arguably the best drafting team in the league. This off-season some tough decisions will need to be made on guys like Andrus Peat, Cam Jordan. I love Cam Jordan, but he's aging and cutting Peat and Jordan pre 6/1 gets us to 12M over. Cut Winston and you're good.  Salary cap issues are no more and you've got a competitive team still. 

[Raves]

I can't blame Loomis too much for trading the future picks if we are being honest.  We really couldn't see the Saints having such a rough start to the year considering the defense was still expected to be dominant and the offense should've been even better than last year considering a healthy MT alone improves the offense not to mention also bringing in Landry.

If you really think about it the Saints only trade like a 3rd and a 4th to get Olave from their original pick.  To draft Penning, they traded their '22 3rd, '23 1st, and '24 2nd to make another pick in the top 20 of the '22 draft.  They saw a player in Penning who they felt had the talent to be an elite OT and instead of waiting a year and expecting themselves to be in the middle of the draft at worst and no guarantee a similar caliber of player being available, they got him a year early which they expected to allow them to move on from Armstead instead of continuing the kicking money down the line with him.

But really what it cost to draft Penning a year early was just a '22 3rd and a '24 2nd.  Sure we don't have a 1st this year, but that's because we used it in the last draft.  It's not an asset that was traded but one that was already used.

[Raves]

9 minutes ago, Kingram said:

I don't think the lack of a first is a big issue, because it looks like you absolutely nailed this draft class...once again. I don't think the Saints will ever be in a long rebuild because they're arguably the best drafting team in the league. This off-season some tough decisions will need to be made on guys like Andrus Peat, Cam Jordan. I love Cam Jordan, but he's aging and cutting Peat and Jordan pre 6/1 gets us to 12M over. Cut Winston and you're good.  Salary cap issues are no more and you've got a competitive team still. 

I think Jordan sticks around for leadership alone as he's still quite productive.  Peat I could see getting cut though as with Ruiz on the right side they can have a journeyman OG to cover for him until they eventually draft his replacement.  Heck they might even do it in this upcoming draft.

[Kingram]

1 minute ago, Raves said:

I think Jordan sticks around for leadership alone as he's still quite productive.  Peat I could see getting cut though as with Ruiz on the right side they can have a journeyman OG to cover for him until they eventually draft his replacement.  Heck they might even do it in this upcoming draft.

I agree, parting with Jordan will be hard but it's one of the easiest moves to make to get under the cap. I think Jordan would agree to restructure long before they had to cut him. I'm merely pointing out its not really that hard to get under the cap this year. Cutting Peat is a no-brainer, as is Winston. 

[Raves]

1 minute ago, Kingram said:

I agree, parting with Jordan will be hard but it's one of the easiest moves to make to get under the cap. I think Jordan would agree to restructure long before they had to cut him. I'm merely pointing out its not really that hard to get under the cap this year. Cutting Peat is a no-brainer, as is Winston. 

Well yeah, the Saints have gotten under the cap for years from worse situations.  They were what 80 million over the cap before the start of last off-season and still got under it and signed Landry, Maye, and Mathieu?

[whodatworm23]

40 minutes ago, Raves said:

I can't blame Loomis too much for trading the future picks if we are being honest.  We really couldn't see the Saints having such a rough start to the year considering the defense was still expected to be dominant and the offense should've been even better than last year considering a healthy MT alone improves the offense not to mention also bringing in Landry.

If you really think about it the Saints only trade like a 3rd and a 4th to get Olave from their original pick.  To draft Penning, they traded their '22 3rd, '23 1st, and '24 2nd to make another pick in the top 20 of the '22 draft.  They saw a player in Penning who they felt had the talent to be an elite OT and instead of waiting a year and expecting themselves to be in the middle of the draft at worst and no guarantee a similar caliber of player being available, they got him a year early which they expected to allow them to move on from Armstead instead of continuing the kicking money down the line with him.

But really what it cost to draft Penning a year early was just a '22 3rd and a '24 2nd.  Sure we don't have a 1st this year, but that's because we used it in the last draft.  It's not an asset that was traded but one that was already used.

Loomis came out on local radio and admitted they had an original deal with Philly to move up and secure Olave without surrendering the 2023 1 and 2024 2. That deal morphed into an idea 💡 that Loomis and Ireland felt if they could get another top 20 selection they would have a shot at either one of the drafts top 4 OTs or one of the Georgia DTs, those were the targets and the Saints made the deal and eventually drafted Penning the last of the top 4 tackles. Penning MUST develop into a quality starting LT because of this. People saying look how good Olave is the trade was worth it are wasting their time because Loomis done let the cat out of the bag on that. So basically they traded a future 2nd in order to draft thier 2023 1st a year early... still Penning needs to prove them right.

[Kingram]

20 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

Loomis came out on local radio and admitted they had an original deal with Philly to move up and secure Olave without surrendering the 2023 1 and 2024 2. That deal morphed into an idea 💡 that Loomis and Ireland felt if they could get another top 20 selection they would have a shot at either one of the drafts top 4 OTs or one of the Georgia DTs, those were the targets and the Saints made the deal and eventually drafted Penning the last of the top 4 tackles. Penning MUST develop into a quality starting LT because of this. People saying look how good Olave is the trade was worth it are wasting their time because Loomis done let the cat out of the bag on that. So basically they traded a future 2nd in order to draft thier 2023 1st a year early... still Penning needs to prove them right.

You weren't going to get Olave with the Eagles pick, so that seems like a moot point. If Penning is a quality LT the trade was a slam dunk.

[Raves]

2 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

Loomis came out on local radio and admitted they had an original deal with Philly to move up and secure Olave without surrendering the 2023 1 and 2024 2. That deal morphed into an idea 💡 that Loomis and Ireland felt if they could get another top 20 selection they would have a shot at either one of the drafts top 4 OTs or one of the Georgia DTs, those were the targets and the Saints made the deal and eventually drafted Penning the last of the top 4 tackles. Penning MUST develop into a quality starting LT because of this. People saying look how good Olave is the trade was worth it are wasting their time because Loomis done let the cat out of the bag on that.

So here's a question, we know Olave was a trade to begin with and was going to happen regardless.  How has the other 3 top OTs and the Georgia DTs looked this year?  If they've looked good, and we've seen the flashes from Penning in pre-season/TC, then the basis of the trade was good to begin with as every option would've been a good one.

[whodatworm23]

27 minutes ago, Kingram said:

You weren't going to get Olave with the Eagles pick, so that seems like a moot point. If Penning is a quality LT the trade was a slam dunk.

Loomis didn't elaborate on what the original structure of the deal was or whom it was with for Olave but he did say they opted for the deal with the Eagles because of the 2nd top 20 pick and the cost of that 2nd pick was the 2023 1st and 2024 2nd. He also commented that Olave was their top WR on the board and he would have been the pick had they had their choice of all WRs in the class. Easy to say that post draft but I do believe him, he went on to elaborate on Olaves physical tools, character and polished route running as reasons why.