Tyreek Hill vs Justin Jefferson

[Chiefer]

17 hours ago, Tetsujin said:

He’s done it multiple times this year with Miami. He goes up about as good as a 5’10” guy can.

He can dunk a basketball on a NBA sized basket

[seminoles1]

18 minutes ago, Chiefer said:

He can dunk a basketball on a NBA sized basket

He can touch the top of a doorway in a single leap.

[Soko]

3 hours ago, Bullet Club said:

I disagree. He might not be as good at high pointing due to size but he's absolutely elite in terms of body control/placement and adjusting to the ball. Not every contested catch is a jump ball.

Which part of my post do you disagree with?

The part that says you can be good without being the best, or are you thinking Hill is even with Jefferson/Hopkins at jump ball/contested catches?

[Mox]

7 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Which part of my post do you disagree with?

The part that says you can be good without being the best, or are you thinking Hill is even with Jefferson/Hopkins at jump ball/contested catches?

He is even with Jefferson/Hopkins at contested balls because his ability to adjust to the ball is otherworldly. High pointing a ball isn't every contested catch.

[Soko]

5 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

He is even with Jefferson/Hopkins at contested balls because his ability to adjust to the ball is otherworldly. High pointing a ball isn't every contested catch.

Sure, but high pointing, boxing out, and coming down with catches that defenders straight up have a hand on, are parts of contested catches. Ball tracking and in-air adjustments are too, Hill is very good at those. He doesn’t sniff JJ, or especially Hopkins, at the other parts lol. 

Jefferson isn’t even on Nuk’s level at that either, so I’m baffled what you guys are watching at this point. Apparently Hill is a Steve Smith-Randy Moss hybrid, surprised he isn’t catching 2500-25 every season…

[Mox]

3 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Sure, but high pointing, boxing out, and coming down with catches that defenders straight up have a hand on, are parts of contested catches. Ball tracking and in-air adjustments are too, Hill is very good at those. He doesn’t sniff JJ, or especially Hopkins, at the other parts lol. 

Jefferson isn’t even on Nuk’s level at that either, so I’m baffled what you guys are watching at this point. Apparently Hill is a Steve Smith-Randy Moss hybrid, surprised he isn’t catching 2500-25 every season…

Right, which is literally what I said. He's not on their level in the former, and they aren't on his at the latter so...they are comparable.

[Soko]

10 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

Right, which is literally what I said. He's not on their level in the former, and they aren't on his at the latter so...they are comparable.

Yes they are, lol. They (along with some others) are the best in the league at adjusting to the ball. Hill too, he’s really good at that stuff. 

Is Hill such a better ball tracker than Hopkins? Or better at making adjustments than Jefferson? Absolutely not. They are, however, noticeably better at high pointing, fighting in the air for the ball, physicality at the point of the catch, etc. 

Most of the higher end receivers can track a ball in the air. Most don’t high point like Hopkins or adjust like Jefferson. That’s not a slight. Cooper Kupp doesn’t either, but not many people run the routes or gets the separation Kupp gets either. Separate strengths. Hill torches them both with his speed. 

But nah, you right, Hill’s the best in the league at every aspect of being a receiver lol

Edited November 16, 2022 by Yin-Yang

[Mox]

3 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Yes they are, lol. They (along with some others) are the best in the league at adjusting to the ball. Hill too, he’s really good at that stuff. 

Is Hill such a better ball tracker than Hopkins? Or better at making adjustments than Jefferson? Absolutely not. They are, however, noticeably better at high pointing, fighting in the air for the ball, physicality at the point of the catch, etc. 

Most of the higher end receivers can track a ball in the air. Most don’t high point like Hopkins or adjust like Jefferson. That’s not a slight. Cooper Kupp doesn’t either, but not many people run the routes or gets the separation Kupp gets either. Separate strengths. Hill torches them both with his speed. 

But nah, you right, Hill’s the best in the league at every aspect of being a receiver lol

You know someone isn't confident about their own take when they take the defensive stance and strawman like this about things that were never said.

[Soko]

23 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

You know someone isn't confident about their own take when they take the defensive stance and strawman like this about things that were never said.

Yeah, I’m totally unsure that DeAndre Hopkins is a better contested catch receiver than Tyreek Hill. You caught me. Like, if I’m imagining a 4th down, down 6, end of the game scenario…ball’s in the air, I need my receiver to come down with it even with a defender draped all over him…I’m asking myself: do I want  DeAndre Hopkins? Nah. Justin Jefferson? Hell no. Give me…Tyreek Hill! 

You know how to read people, lol.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Yin-Yang

[Mox]

2 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Yeah, I’m totally unsure that DeAndre Hopkins is a better contested catch receiver than Tyreek Hill. You caught me. Like, if I’m imagining a 4th down, down 6, end of the game scenario…ball’s in the air, I need my receiver to come down with it even with a defender draped all over him…I’m asking myself: do I want  DeAndre Hopkins? Nah. Justin Jefferson? Hell no. Give me…Tyreek Hill! 

You know how to read people, lol.

I was initially going to be a **** when responding to this but I'm going to try to explain this to you, so you understand. If it doesn't work, I'm done responding.

The example you just gave is already a situation I have admitted they are better at than Hill. That's not in any way a "Gotcha!" post. My point is that there are far more examples of contested catches than the one you described, that happen far more often, that Tyreek Hill is superior to than pretty much any WR in the game. This is not at all an extreme take. 

It also not saying there aren't things Hopkins and Jefferson do better than Hill. It is not even saying he's better overall at contested catches. It is simply saying in terms of contested catches Tyreek's body control and ability to adjust are so good that it makes him comparable to the others despite the fact they are better at high pointing.

[Soko]

17 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

My point is that there are far more examples of contested catches than the one you described, that happen far more often, that Tyreek Hill is superior to than pretty much any WR in the game. This is not at all an extreme take. 

in terms of contested catches Tyreek's body control and ability to adjust are so good that it makes him comparable to the others despite the fact they are better at high pointing.

Which single play would you use as an example to prove that Hill is “pretty much” superior to every WR in the league at body control and adjusting to the ball? 

I know anyone can look godly for a single play (see: Brandon Lloyd), so it should be simple to find. Or is it that he adjusts and controls himself so much more often than the best wide receivers in the league?

[HoboRocket]

1 hour ago, Bullet Club said:

It also not saying there aren't things Hopkins and Jefferson do better than Hill. It is not even saying he's better overall at contested catches. It is simply saying in terms of contested catches Tyreek's body control and ability to adjust are so good that it makes him comparable to the others despite the fact they are better at high pointing.

I'd give Hopkins and Jefferson the edge in the body control department. Hopkins has such an understanding of leverage and insane body control that lets him apply it to the field better than anybody else in the league. The way he plays the sideline, it's like the field is 5 yards wider. It's also why he's pretty much unrivaled in drawing penalties. If he can't win cleanly, he can make the defender trip up or force them to hold him with the angle he takes to the ball. Hopkins also has better hands than Hill. 

Jefferson, as evidenced in this past game against the Bills and throughout his young career, also has fantastic body control. I'd give him the edge over Hill in that department, too. 

Hill definitely has them in change-of-direction, explosion, make-you-miss ability, and tracking/adjustment. 

I'd say that Hill is good enough in the stuff he's not better than them at that the things he IS better at gives him the edge as the best WR in the NFL. 

[MagicMT]

7 hours ago, HoboRocket said:

I'd give Hopkins and Jefferson the edge in the body control department. Hopkins has such an understanding of leverage and insane body control that lets him apply it to the field better than anybody else in the league. The way he plays the sideline, it's like the field is 5 yards wider. It's also why he's pretty much unrivaled in drawing penalties. If he can't win cleanly, he can make the defender trip up or force them to hold him with the angle he takes to the ball. Hopkins also has better hands than Hill. 

Jefferson, as evidenced in this past game against the Bills and throughout his young career, also has fantastic body control. I'd give him the edge over Hill in that department, too. 

Hill definitely has them in change-of-direction, explosion, make-you-miss ability, and tracking/adjustment. 

I'd say that Hill is good enough in the stuff he's not better than them at that the things he IS better at gives him the edge as the best WR in the NFL. 

            Well said 

[biggie.]

Take Hill off Miami and Waddle will just pick up some of the slack.

Take JJ off Minnesota and that entire offense comes to a grinding halt.

Edited November 17, 2022 by biggie.

[seminoles1]

9 minutes ago, biggie. said:

Take Hill off Miami and Waddle will just pick up some of the slack.

Take JJ off Minnesota and that entire offense comes to a grinding halt.

I hate this argument so much. So because Miami has another good WR, that means Hill isn't as good?

It's the same thing when people bring up backup QBs in the MVP debate. Someone having a good backup doesn't diminish the value they bring or their impact on the team.