Zach Wilson

[Forge]

Chris Simms has entered "tweet through it" stage when it comes to his QB1

[iknowcool]

14 minutes ago, Forge said:

Chris Simms has entered "tweet through it" stage when it comes to his QB1

I'm not sure what he thinks is being cherry-picked though, given most of the clips he looked at, had some form of "This is bad" attached to it.  

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

20 minutes ago, iknowcool said:

I'm not sure what he thinks is being cherry-picked though, given most of the clips he looked at, had some form of "This is bad" attached to it.  

"Guys you can't just dog on a QB for a few cherry-picked plays. Here's a full list of the plays he made and my notes:

1. Awful
2. Terrible
3. bad
4. Good, but also still bad
5. Atrocious
6. What is he doing?
7. Dear God what is this?! Awful.

See?! He's actually good!

[ThatJaxxenGuy]

39 minutes ago, Forge said:

Chris Simms has entered "tweet through it" stage when it comes to his QB1

Simms is a bum who owes everything he has to his daddy 

[Soko]

2 hours ago, jetjuice said:

How does a Super Bowl appearance and NFCCG appearance in two of the past three years scream QB purgatory? 

Because QB purgatory doesn’t mean you won’t get to a championship game or a SB. It means everything has to work out perfectly for the team to be successful, whereas elite QBs can cover up flaws. 

Mark Sanchez made it to back to back NFCCGs, does that mean he wasn’t bad? Rex Grossman played in one, was he not bad? Jake Delhomme? Trent Dilfer won one. Zombie Peyton? Nick Foles (although to his credit, he was playing well above that level)? Those teams weren’t winning because Jimmy was a great QB, they were winning because they were able to play great complementary football and Jimmy was able to manage it. In the biggest moments, he failed there. 

2 hours ago, jetjuice said:

The Jets will be able to offer all the things you said would be hard to find plus familiarity with the staff and system. When you have a roster as talented as ours and have been held back by the likes of Sam Darnold and Zach Wilson the past 5 years, having a proven guy who can keep the train on schedule is a massive boon.

It is until it isn’t. There’s a reason Jimmy’s not signing a long term deal in SF, there’s a reason they drafted Lance, there’s a reason Alex Smith was dumped in favor of Kaepernick, and then again in favor of Mahomes. 

2 hours ago, jetjuice said:

This is where you're gonna be wrong. Zach's as good as done in NY, I see him either being cut or traded. It won't be a competition if Jimmy comes here, we are looking for a proven starting QB who can take us to a Super Bowl with the roster we currently have.

Hard disagree. I see almost no scenario where Wilson isn’t on the roster in 2023, and given his pedigree and positioning, I don’t see there not being a QB competition at absolute worst. NYJ aren’t handing the keys over in the offseason unless they’re bringing in someone like Brady or Rodgers IMO.

[Soko]

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

As I literally just said and @Forgeconfirmed there was a deal on the table but he decided to have surgery. Most teams were also hesitant to trade for him because they thought the 49ers would eventually have to cut him if they didn’t trade him. He was originally scheduled to make $26M and they restructured it to like 5-6M, IIRC. 

It “literally” wasn’t confirmed, lol. Reported, okay. 

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

Wentz was thought to have upside? He led the league in interceptions despite not even playing in like 5 or 6 games his last year in Philadelphia. The Colts traded a 1st round pick for him because they were desperate for a QB, he was connected to their coach, and they felt that he could be the piece that got them over the top as they were ready to compete. That sounds pretty similar to the Jets as Jimmy has connections with their coaches, they may feel they’re a QB away, and he gives them a chance to compete immediately. 

The thought absolutely was that Wentz was going to be reunited with the “real reason” the Philly offense was so good at all, Reich, and that he’d return to form, yes. The physical tools didn’t disappear, he was still a big, mobile QB, with a big arm. 

Jimmy…isn’t. Jimmy’s already in one of the best offensive systems in the league, has played behind an elite line, has played behind an elite run game, has played with an elite defense, and has had great players to throw to. There’s no upside to him leaving and being a better player than he was in SF, the way the hope was with Wentz. 

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

It’s not out of the realm of possibilities that the Jets trade him this offseason. Josh Rosen was traded for a second round pick after his terrible rookie year. Teams are extremely desperate for QB. 

No, it isn’t. It’s not out of the realm of possibility that Tom Brady picks his next team to be the Jets either, doesn’t mean it’s likely or that I’d entertain it lol. My first post was that I don’t think the nail’s in his coffin yet, even if he’s benched. Realizing that the iron is hot and that Zach isn’t going to win you the games right now, doesn’t necessarily mean the team thinks his career is over. You do what’s best for the team in the moment.

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

And FWIW, Spotrac has Jimmy G’s market value at like 4 yr/$26M APY.

And the Jets are $17M over the cap in 2023…granted they have some easyish cuts to make to create space. 

[NYRaider]

3 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

It “literally” wasn’t confirmed, lol. Reported, okay. 

The thought absolutely was that Wentz was going to be reunited with the “real reason” the Philly offense was so good at all, Reich, and that he’d return to form, yes. The physical tools didn’t disappear, he was still a big, mobile QB, with a big arm. 

Jimmy…isn’t. Jimmy’s already in one of the best offensive systems in the league, has played behind an elite line, has played behind an elite run game, has played with an elite defense, and has had great players to throw to. There’s no upside to him leaving and being a better player than he was in SF, the way the hope was with Wentz. 

No, it isn’t. It’s not out of the realm of possibility that Tom Brady picks his next team to be the Jets either, doesn’t mean it’s likely or that I’d entertain it lol. My first post was that I don’t think the nail’s in his coffin yet, even if he’s benched. Realizing that the iron is hot and that Zach isn’t going to win you the games right now, doesn’t necessarily mean the team thinks his career is over. You do what’s best for the team in the moment.

And the Jets are $17M over the cap in 2023…granted they have some easyish cuts to make to create space. 

The primary reason no one traded for Jimmy was because of his shoulder and contract situation. I don't think most teams expected that he'd ultimately take a pay cut to remain in San Francisco. 

And that's fine, despite Jimmy's flaws he has been the 49ers starter for two deep runs in the postseason. He isn't going to light it up or carry the offense but he's also not going to lose games either. The Jets are extremely talented and could make a major leap with another strong offseason and if their core guys take the next step. They wouldn't be bringing Jimmy in with crazy expectations, they'd ask him to play a similar role to what he currently plays for the 49ers. Lean on the defense and run game with Breece Hall and get the ball to their playmakers in space. Their offense looked better with guys like Flacco/White under center than it has with Wilson. 

Anything is possible but I just think Jimmy is a logical fit with the Jets for the reasons we've already discussed. 

I agree that the nail isn't even close to being in the coffin quite yet. There are still 7 games left and the Jets have pretty favorable matchups in 5 of the next 6 games against the Bears, Vikings, Lions, Jaguars, and Seahawks. If he doesn't show noticeable signs of improvement and/or the team doesn't finish strong I think it could get ugly for him pretty quickly. I just personally don't really see how you can bench him in the midst of a playoff run for someone like Flacco/White and still be confident in him as your starter going forward. Joe Douglas' decision to either keep or replace him and who he is replaced with will probably determine his long term job security as the Jets GM.

[Forge]

25 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

has played behind an elite line

Have never understood where this narrative comes from. Elite run blocking line in the past? Sure, maybe. Elite pass blocking line? No. Jimmy actually should get a ton of credit for making that line look much better than it has been. The line this year may be the best pass blocking line he's ever had, and McG is still really bad. 

I'm about as lukewarm as can be when it comes to Jimmy, but I have to credit him where it's due. The line has not been elite under him and it's often been injured. 

Everything else is fair, but Jimmy really deserves some credit for propping up the line at times. 

[Soko]

13 minutes ago, Forge said:

Have never understood where this narrative comes from. Elite run blocking line in the past? Sure, maybe. Elite pass blocking line? No. Jimmy actually should get a ton of credit for making that line look much better than it has been. The line this year may be the best pass blocking line he's ever had, and McG is still really bad. 

I'm about as lukewarm as can be when it comes to Jimmy, but I have to credit him where it's due. The line has not been elite under him and it's often been injured. 

Everything else is fair, but Jimmy really deserves some credit for propping up the line at times. 

Less of a narrative being pushed and more of an understanding. I thought the SF line was getting high quality play out of the offensive line, but I’m not in position to tell you I know otherwise lol.

[Soko]

30 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Anything is possible but I just think Jimmy is a logical fit with the Jets for the reasons we've already discussed. 

Yes, agreed, that’s what I said in the first post lol. Just with the caveat that I don’t think JD is dumping Zach after a season and a half+, so Jimmy’s going to have to weigh joining a great situation with a young QB breathing on his neck vs a team that’s probably in a poor situation with minimal competition. 

30 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I agree that the nail isn't even close to being in the coffin quite yet. There are still 7 games left and the Jets have pretty favorable matchups in 5 of the next 6 games against the Bears, Vikings, Lions, Jaguars, and Seahawks. If he doesn't show noticeable signs of improvement and/or the team doesn't finish strong I think it could get ugly for him pretty quickly. I just personally don't really see how you can bench him in the midst of a playoff run for someone like Flacco/White and still be confident in him as your starter going forward. Joe Douglas' decision to either keep or replace him and who he is replaced with will probably determine his long term job security as the Jets GM.

It’s not a common circumstance, but it’s happened. The 15’ Broncos did it with Peyton->Osweiler->Peyton, granted Manning was nursing a foot injury the first time he was benched but the reason for the benching was largely due to his play (pulled in the 4th quarter after 4 turnovers, followed by a three game W streak by Brock). Belichick just did it this year on a smaller scale and plenty of people (especially on the Pats sub) absolutely lost their minds over how Belichick just mentally destroyed Mac, but the kid responded as well as he could’ve. Took it to the chin and kept playing. Saleh seeing that Zach isn’t playing well right and looking for an offensive spark doesn’t mean that’s he’s done in NY. 

It’s a near guarantee that NY brings in competition, no doubt about that. I just don’t see them handing the keys right away, though. I think the Jets QB situation looks a little bit like the Steeler’s QBs this year - the veteran might win in, but Zach’s going to be waiting in the wings when a couple games don’t go their way. 

[NYRaider]

3 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Yes, agreed, that’s what I said in the first post lol. Just with the caveat that I don’t think JD is dumping Zach after a season and a half+, so Jimmy’s going to have to weigh joining a great situation with a young QB breathing on his neck vs a team that’s probably in a poor situation with minimal competition. 

It’s not a common circumstance, but it’s happened. The 15’ Broncos did it with Peyton->Osweiler->Peyton, granted Manning was nursing a foot injury the first time he was benched but the reason for the benching was largely due to his play (pulled in the 4th quarter after 4 turnovers, followed by a three game W streak by Brock). Belichick just did it this year on a smaller scale and plenty of people (especially on the Pats sub) absolutely lost their minds over how Belichick just mentally destroyed Mac, but the kid responded as well as he could’ve. Took it to the chin and kept playing. Saleh seeing that Zach isn’t playing well right and looking for an offensive spark doesn’t mean that’s he’s done in NY. 

It’s a near guarantee that NY brings in competition, no doubt about that. I just don’t see them handing the keys right away, though. I think the Jets QB situation looks a little bit like the Steeler’s QBs this year - the veteran might win in, but Zach’s going to be waiting in the wings when a couple games don’t go their way. 

I don't think the Jets moving on from Wilson after this season is as far fetched as you do. The next 7 games will probably determine his future with the team because he seems to have already lost the locker room / favor amongst the coaching staff. The worst decision they could make would be to commit to him in hopes that he improves and then waste another season because of mediocre QB play. Missing on the #2 pick isn't ideal but it's not going to cripple them because they've had 5 other first round picks over the last couple of draft cycles. 

Manning was at the end of his career, I was referring to a team drafting someone highly, benching them during a winning season, and then going back to them as their QB going forward. Wasn't Mac Jones dealing with an injury though? It wasn't like he was playing horribly and the team decided the backup gave them a better chance to win. 

Obviously it doesn't mean that he's definitely done in NY or not their QB going forward. But having to bench the supposed franchise QB during a winning season because Mike White or Joe Flacco give you a better chance to win is probably as close to the kiss of death as you can get. If Wilson had flashed but was just going through a bad stretch I think it'd be easier to have confidence in him but he has been terrible his entire time in New York. 

The difference is that Pickett is a rookie so having that veteran insurance policy is understandable. Having to bring in a veteran to push a QB in his third year is suspect af, lol.

[Soko]

3 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I don't think the Jets moving on from Wilson after this season is as far fetched as you do. The next 7 games will probably determine his future with the team because he seems to have already lost the locker room / favor amongst the coaching staff. The worst decision they could make would be to commit to him in hopes that he improves and then waste another season because of mediocre QB play. Missing on the #2 pick isn't ideal but it's not going to cripple them because they've had 5 other first round picks over the last couple of draft cycles.

Like I said, competition is almost guaranteed. Committing, to me, would be bringing in a true backup QB (McCoy, Heinicke, someone like that). Doubt that happens, but yeah, if it does that’d be a colossal mistake and a terrible gamble.

3 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Manning was at the end of his career, I was referring to a team drafting someone highly, benching them during a winning season, and then going back to them as their QB going forward. Wasn't Mac Jones dealing with an injury though? It wasn't like he was playing horribly and the team decided the backup gave them a better chance to win. 

It’s a unique situation, especially since the team is so young, they’re not looking to hit a window. 

Mac was returning from injury and then started the following week. I wouldn’t doubt that it’s still bothering him on some level but he wasn’t benched for that reason. The offense wasn’t playing well (breaking news) and Bill pulled him for Zappe.

3 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Obviously it doesn't mean that he's definitely done in NY or not their QB going forward. But having to bench the supposed franchise QB during a winning season because Mike White or Joe Flacco give you a better chance to win is probably as close to the kiss of death as you can get. If Wilson had flashed but was just going through a bad stretch I think it'd be easier to have confidence in him but he has been terrible his entire time in New York. 

Ironically, I think the only reason (besides his own play) they’re considering benching him is because it’s a winning season. Without the postseason aspirations, Zach likely finishes the season, there’d be no reason to bring Flacco or White in. 

Yeah Zach isn’t showing progress which is the biggest issue. If I’m Saleh, I’m letting Flacco take the reigns until he shows that he isn’t it. 

3 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

The difference is that Pickett is a rookie so having that veteran insurance policy is understandable. Having to bring in a veteran to push a QB in his third year is suspect af, lol.

Chicken salad out of chicken***, all that…

Listen, I think NYJ should get someone like Jimmy (or Carr if possible). I think Jimmy should want to go to NY. We’ll see whether JD and Saleh hit the red button on Zach in the meantime!

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, Yin-Yang said:

Like I said, competition is almost guaranteed. Committing, to me, would be bringing in a true backup QB (McCoy, Heinicke, someone like that). Doubt that happens, but yeah, if it does that’d be a colossal mistake and a terrible gamble.

It’s a unique situation, especially since the team is so young, they’re not looking to hit a window. 

Good teams typically don't have QB battles or bring in guys to compete with their starter, I'd say that most of the time a team comes into a season with a guy that has struggled and his potential replacement it leads to issues. Especially if it's the younger guy that's ultimately going to be replaced. 

The team being extremely young and on team friendly deals creates the perfect window to try and go for it now before they have to start making tough roster decisions when guys want to get paid. Most teams want a rookie QB so they can pay the rest of their core but the Jets are in a unique spot where they can afford to pay a QB because their young core is so talented. 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

9 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

Jimmy neither has upside or is looking to rekindle any fires. He is what he is. 

The upside is the team winning with him. Can't say the same about Darnold or Wentz anymore after chances on multiple squads. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by TecmoSuperJoe

[TecmoSuperJoe]

3 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

Because QB purgatory doesn’t mean you won’t get to a championship game or a SB. It means everything has to work out perfectly for the team to be successful, whereas elite QBs can cover up flaws. 

They can, but some never even do that on stacked rosters. Warren Moon never made it to a championship game. Rivers, Fouts never to the Super Bowl. All had good teams. Plunkett has two rings, Hostetler, Dilfer, Foles, etc. I'm sure those perennial acclaimed triggermen would trade playing like **** in the playoffs if it meant playing for a championship. 

Jets with Jimmy G playing like he is now, would give them a chance for a ring, just like he is with the 49ers now. And that's all that should matter. There are only maybe 3 or 4 starters in the league right now that are transcendent talents at QB. Everyone else is in that next tier as far as I see it. Jets would have their best QB since Chad Pennington if they got Jimmy next year. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by TecmoSuperJoe