2022 GDT 5-7 Steelers host the 8-4 Ravens

[Steeler Hitman]

9 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I’m sorry but this is the extra type of blame on the wrong guys that kinda just grinds my gears. You can’t blame every player mistake on bad coaching. At some point it is just players not taking direction and in season, there’s not a whole lot you can do about that. 

I am not blaming everything on the coaches. Nor am I blaming everything on the players. But War, someone has to take accountability! Talented players make genius coaches.  If you have players that don't do what you teach or you can't help change bad habits, get rid of them. If you continue to accept their excuses and poor play, then it will fall on the coaches for not acting on their play or lack of.

 

[warfelg]

7 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

I am not blaming everything on the coaches. Nor am I blaming everything on the players. But War, someone has to take accountability! Talented players make genius coaches.  If you have players that don't do what you teach or you can't help change bad habits, get rid of them. If you continue to accept their excuses and poor play, then it will fall on the coaches for not acting on their play or lack of.

 

The guy that should take accountability built the team and retired. 
 

Like I said - mid season your options are limited. Especially mid game if a guy misses an assignment there’s only so many guys you can put out there. 

Edited December 12, 2022 by warfelg

[3rivers]

6 hours ago, warfelg said:

Diontae Johnson has 113 targets and 67 catches.

ho wmany hit his hands and where does he rank in dropped passes?

[43M]

3 hours ago, warfelg said:

I’m sorry but this is the extra type of blame on the wrong guys that kinda just grinds my gears. You can’t blame every player mistake on bad coaching. At some point it is just players not taking direction and in season, there’s not a whole lot you can do about that. 

How about years upon years of similar issues hurting this team, with minimal efforts made to correct the issues or adjust?   

Coaching isnt everything, but a certain someone has had a major say in the "talent" we have brought in the last 10 years, and wasnt just the guy who retired.  

 

[warfelg]

9 minutes ago, 43M said:

How about years upon years of similar issues hurting this team, with minimal efforts made to correct the issues or adjust?   

Coaching isnt everything, but a certain someone has had a major say in the "talent" we have brought in the last 10 years, and wasnt just the guy who retired.  

 

And he deserves that part. But I’m sorry this is what gets me, I’m not saying Tomlin and positional coaches are faultless but is all being turned on him. 
 

So the charge here then is no in game adjustment. Heyward, Adams, Alualu, Loudermilk, Ogunjobi, Leal are all missing assignments. What fixes and entire positional group screwing up mid game?

[43M]

Just now, warfelg said:

And he deserves that part. But I’m sorry this is what gets me, I’m not saying Tomlin and positional coaches are faultless but is all being turned on him. 
 

So the charge here then is no in game adjustment. Heyward, Adams, Alualu, Loudermilk, Ogunjobi, Leal are all missing assignments. What fixes and entire positional group screwing up mid game?

Its not all on him, but lingering issues that have plagued this team for over a decade, largely are.    He is the guy in charge of the team and corrections are almost never made....at least not to the extent they need to be.

As far as the DL...Ive already stated numerous times the DL needs completely overhauled.   I give them a pass over losing a key player like Tuitt, since they had zero control over that situation, but I also believe coaching, talent acquisition and scouting have led to numerous issues there.

It doesn't all fall on Tomlin, but he certainly needs to start feeling some heat. 

[warfelg]

28 minutes ago, 43M said:

Its not all on him, but lingering issues that have plagued this team for over a decade, largely are.    He is the guy in charge of the team and corrections are almost never made....at least not to the extent they need to be.

As far as the DL...Ive already stated numerous times the DL needs completely overhauled.   I give them a pass over losing a key player like Tuitt, since they had zero control over that situation, but I also believe coaching, talent acquisition and scouting have led to numerous issues there.

It doesn't all fall on Tomlin, but he certainly needs to start feeling some heat. 

See I think it’s more on scouting, talent acquisition (moreso irresponsible cap management), and allowing people who don’t spend all year studying players having say that’s the problem than coaching. 
 

Like I said at the start, Tomlin takes so much heat because of the lack of media appearances our GM and Owner make. I believe it does lead to a spot where people think everyone answers to him. 
 

Like at the end of the day this week, yea the defense stunk up the joint stopping the run. But they also did not give up a ton of points. In this era of the NFL the defense holding someone to 16 should be a win. 
 

This is what I’ve heard for years:

Tomlin isn’t blameless but fans (not just yinzers) put an inordinate amount of blame on him because other members of the FO refuse to face the media. 

[warfelg]

41 minutes ago, 43M said:

Its not all on him, but lingering issues that have plagued this team for over a decade, largely are.    He is the guy in charge of the team and corrections are almost never made....at least not to the extent they need to be.

As far as the DL...Ive already stated numerous times the DL needs completely overhauled.   I give them a pass over losing a key player like Tuitt, since they had zero control over that situation, but I also believe coaching, talent acquisition and scouting have led to numerous issues there.

It doesn't all fall on Tomlin, but he certainly needs to start feeling some heat. 

Also - and I’m about to make you feel dirty AF - this is 100% on board with Mark Maddens take. The team is talentless because of Tomlin. 

[warfelg]

Really random but stumbled on this:

Must be nice to be talented enough to run the exact same play 3 times in a row and win on all 3 reps. 

[43M]

1 minute ago, warfelg said:

See I think it’s more on scouting, talent acquisition (moreso irresponsible cap management), and allowing people who don’t spend all year studying players having say that’s the problem than coaching. 
 

Like I said at the start, Tomlin takes so much heat because of the lack of media appearances our GM and Owner make. I believe it does lead to a spot where people think everyone answers to him. 
 

Like at the end of the day this week, yea the defense stunk up the joint stopping the run. But they also did not give up a ton of points. In this era of the NFL the defense holding someone to 16 should be a win. 
 

This is what I’ve heard for years:

Tomlin isn’t blameless but fans (not just yinzers) put an inordinate amount of blame on him because other members of the FO refuse to face the media. 

I agree with most of that, but Tomlin is the face of the team.   Obviously, he is not the only issue.   A sports franchise is a machine with many moving parts.  Be he has the final say.    He is the leader.   The buck stops with him.  Just how it is.

Ive been pushing for new scouts for years.   Ive been pushing for many changes.   I definitely don't have the answers either. 

 All I know is that under Tomlin, we havent taken a notable step forward in a long time.    Its been one step forward, one or two steps back for a decade now.

I know you aren't a Tomlin apologist, and I do agree people try to dump on him, but Im just tired of pretending he isn't just a part of the problem, but a BIG part of the problem.

 

[warfelg]

Just now, 43M said:

Be he has the final say.    He is the leader.   The buck stops with him. 

It doesn’t. If MT/GM are at odds then ARII makes the call. Otherwise it’s joint MT/GM decisions. It shouldn’t be. GM needs to put the foot down. Partially this is also a carryover from the Cowher days. 

 

2 minutes ago, 43M said:

 

I know you aren't a Tomlin apologist, and I do agree people try to dump on him, but Im just tired of pretending he isn't just a part of the problem, but a BIG part of the problem.

I don’t feel like he’s as big of a part of the problem as is made out to be. If you are talking the slide as a whole I put 40% on him. This season? Like 10% of the blame. 

[43M]

5 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Also - and I’m about to make you feel dirty AF - this is 100% on board with Mark Maddens take. The team is talentless because of Tomlin. 

Not really, because I never said that.

I just said he deserves his lions share of the blame for the problems this team is having and has been having for a long time.

As much as I loathe Madden, I wont be a contrarion for the sake of disagreeing with him.

Much like a certain Tomlin hating poster on here....not ALL of his thoughts are invalid and incorrect.   Just mired in bitterness and scorn with zero objectivity.

I dont hate Tomlin.   Ive defended him alot.   Im just tired of people acting like he is untouchable.

[warfelg]

Also this thread is great reading. 
 

interestingly, based on this the Cincy free rusher issue 2 weeks ago seems it would be the OL fault and not KP as some have pointed out. 

[43M]

2 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I don’t feel like he’s as big of a part of the problem as is made out to be. If you are talking the slide as a whole I put 40% on him. This season? Like 10% of the blame. 

Which is why Im not beating the "fire Tomlin"  drum the way I beat on the "fire Canada" drum.

However, I will continue beating the "Tomlin needs to be on the hot seat" drum.

[warfelg]

Just now, 43M said:

Not really, because I never said that.

I just said he deserves his lions share of the blame for the problems this team is having and has been having for a long time.

As much as I loathe Madden, I wont be a contrarion for the sake of disagreeing with him.

Much like a certain Tomlin hating poster on here....not ALL of his thoughts are invalid and incorrect.   Just mired in bitterness and scorn with zero objectivity.

I dont hate Tomlin.   Ive defended him alot.   Im just tired of people acting like he is untouchable.

I can’t think of who is acting like he’s untouchable. 
 

I have two simple rules if you are going to move on from Tomlin:

1) You better have an answer of someone you know is better. 
2) You better know his value around the league because he would have 5 offers 1 hour after we let him go. 
 

And yes points can easily to me be invalid when stuff is put onto someone who’s fault it isn’t. I think the place Tomlin is the most underrated is the fact that he takes all that blame regardless of who’s at fault and handles it behind closed doors. I’m personally not a fan, and in fact hate it, when coaches air out the dirty laundry in the media and use the media to correct players. That’s not being a leader. That’s passing the blame.