Karnage84 Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 12 hours ago, detfan782004 said: Honestly don't think it will be as big of a loss as some do. He's good but there are a ton of talented OC imo. Given the rules of NFL it's harder to find a good DC because the rules favor the offense I would look at following guys: Joe Brady - Buf Mike Bobo- GA - this guy reminds me of Ben a but from presnap movements Internally: Antwan Randle El What do you see from ARE that has you thinking he'd be a good OC candidate? Outside of his time as a player and as a position coach with us, I'm not that familiar with stuff that you might be so I'm curious to get your thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 13 hours ago, detfan782004 said: Honestly don't think it will be as big of a loss as some do. He's good but there are a ton of talented OC imo. Given the rules of NFL it's harder to find a good DC because the rules favor the offense I would look at following guys: Joe Brady - Buf Mike Bobo- GA - this guy reminds me of Ben a but from presnap movements Internally: Antwan Randle El I know there are a ton of good OC's out there but finding the right guy with the right scheme for the players you have is not always easy to find. There are still only 32 OC's at the highest level and of those 10-12 will get fired and a couple more will find HC jobs. We had one we thought was better in Lynn when DC started and he moved on from him for Johnson. Finding the guy who fits your scheme, your players, and doesn't disrupt what we have been building is actually a pretty risky move and the next one will need to be selected very carefully. KC's offense isn't as good without Bienemy and ours could take a step back similarly with the wrong hire and we don't have the defense or the QB to still win without a great offense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionArkie Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 (edited) I don't want to take away from Ben Johnson at all. I think he's great, but we honestly started turning the corner when DC took over for Lynn. I continue to wonder how much of it is DC and how much of it is Ben Johnson? I think the years under Payton probably served DC quite well. Edited December 20, 2023 by LionArkie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 3 hours ago, LionArkie said: I don't want to take away from Ben Johnson at all. I think he's great, but we honestly started turning the corner when DC took over for Lynn. I continue to wonder how much of it is DC and how much of it is Ben Johnson? I think the years under Payton probably served DC quite well. It could be a scenario where DC and Ben have a mutual understanding and shared philosophies that have them working well together. Finding that right fit where people put ego's aside and work collaboratively doesn't always fly. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detfan782004 Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 13 hours ago, Karnage84 said: What do you see from ARE that has you thinking he'd be a good OC candidate? Outside of his time as a player and as a position coach with us, I'm not that familiar with stuff that you might be so I'm curious to get your thoughts. He is on a small list of potential candidates to be OC in Pit. They rave about his ability to game plan and find mismatches in the passing game. Bruce Arians loved him and there was mention of him replacing Leftwich but that obviously didn't happen. The biggest reason he is getting raves from players is because of playing QB in college he has the ability to speak QB to an extent. So OCs are to groom QBs which is a knock around league on why he's been on wild card OC list but eventually he will get the look. For me it makes sense to keep someone familiar with system as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detfan782004 Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 11 hours ago, LionArkie said: I don't want to take away from Ben Johnson at all. I think he's great, but we honestly started turning the corner when DC took over for Lynn. I continue to wonder how much of it is DC and how much of it is Ben Johnson? I think the years under Payton probably served DC quite well. True points all around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Friend Posted December 21, 2023 Author Share Posted December 21, 2023 Josina Anderson is reporting that teams around the league have been told that Ben Johnson is looking for $15 million per year to take a head coaching job. I think this means one of two things: 1. It’s a bogus report to turn teams off from even engaging, which I don’t see why teams wouldn’t still do their own leg work and inquire. 2. That is his price to walk away from the Lions. He has a custom system here with a top 5 offense and hasn’t seen everything it can do yet. We know Shiela opened the wallet when he returned this year, no doubt it would need to be more than just a title to make him “start over”. I don’t know if I believe her report, but I hope it’s true because it bodes well for him staying. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagahide13 Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 (edited) If Detroit finishes strong he'll probably get that somewhere. I'd think he should still turn down a job like Carolina, even for that price. The reward for turning that program around would not outweigh the risk of flopping and hurting your career. He could destroy his HC career immediately or he could make a ton of money as an OC and then pick a far softer landing spot to start off. If he has the option to go to ATL or LAC for somewhere in that neighborhood he should do it. Edited December 21, 2023 by nagahide13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Want A Title Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 17 minutes ago, nagahide13 said: If Detroit finishes strong he'll probably get that somewhere. I'd think he should still turn down a job like Carolina, even for that price. The reward for turning that program around would not outweigh the risk of flopping and hurting your career. He could destroy his HC career immediately or he could make a ton of money as an OC and then pick a far softer landing spot to start off. If he has the option to go to ATL or LAC for somewhere in that neighborhood he should do it. I think Ben Johnson isn't quite ready to leave but he wants to leave the door open if someone wants to blow the doors off to get him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detfan782004 Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 2 hours ago, Louis Friend said: Josina Anderson is reporting that teams around the league have been told that Ben Johnson is looking for $15 million per year to take a head coaching job. I think this means one of two things: 1. It’s a bogus report to turn teams off from even engaging, which I don’t see why teams wouldn’t still do their own leg work and inquire. 2. That is his price to walk away from the Lions. He has a custom system here with a top 5 offense and hasn’t seen everything it can do yet. We know Shiela opened the wallet when he returned this year, no doubt it would need to be more than just a title to make him “start over”. I don’t know if I believe her report, but I hope it’s true because it bodes well for him staying. Its a control tactic which is smart. If you put numbers out like that and teams still approach you that means they are serious. Why waste time interviewing if a team is not serious. When I get job offers my first and only response is? What is your company offering for compensation because if its not my current salary plus 15% I have zero interest. Why? Because I get a pay raise each year so that accounts for roughly 5% so I would want 10% on top of that.....if they dont respond I dodged bullet. If they do respond I can take a serious look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Tso Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 Philly lost their OC Steichen and their offense does not look the same this year. Even KC, with Reid, doesn't look the same offensively without Bienemy. It's not that easy to replace talented coordinators. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detfan782004 Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 1 hour ago, General Tso said: Philly lost their OC Steichen and their offense does not look the same this year. Even KC, with Reid, doesn't look the same offensively without Bienemy. It's not that easy to replace talented coordinators. I just don't think it's all him. He's benefited from other changes. Losing him will not hurt as bad as people are alluding to imo, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Want A Title Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 3 hours ago, General Tso said: Philly lost their OC Steichen and their offense does not look the same this year. Even KC, with Reid, doesn't look the same offensively without Bienemy. It's not that easy to replace talented coordinators. That may be true but in the case of the Chiefs, they might be asking Patrick Mahomes to do too much. Travis Kelce is still Travis Kelce. However, they aren't getting much from the WRs. Rookie Rashee Rice is going a nice job but everyone else has disappeared. They haven't come close to adding a WR with the skill level of Tyreek Hill and it is starting to limit their offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Tso Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Just Want A Title said: That may be true but in the case of the Chiefs, they might be asking Patrick Mahomes to do too much. Travis Kelce is still Travis Kelce. However, they aren't getting much from the WRs. Rookie Rashee Rice is going a nice job but everyone else has disappeared. They haven't come close to adding a WR with the skill level of Tyreek Hill and it is starting to limit their offense. We can do this song and dance with a lot of teams that lost OCs in the recent years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Want A Title Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 1 hour ago, General Tso said: We can do this song and dance with a lot of teams that lost OCs in the recent years. One other thing that has to affect the Chiefs offense is that their starting OTs, Jawaan Taylor and Donovan Smith, are pretty mediocre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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