The Lamar offseason talk thread

[Ray Reed]

58 minutes ago, CriminalMind said:

The amount of years & AAV is missing information for Jackson’s offer

That would matter more if the hold up this entire time with Lamar didn’t have solely to do with the guaranteed money of the deal. 

We offered Lamar more real guarantees than Hurts just signed for. 

It is what it is.

Edited April 17, 2023 by Ray Reed

[wackywabbit]

10 hours ago, Danger said:

Y'all have my condolences. Hate to say it, but at this point, it really feels like Lamar is either out of touch or just selfish.

😂

Wait until Lamar actually holds out of games to have sympathy for the fans. It's always been obvious he's suiting up week 1 for the Ravens.

[Ray Reed]

 

[AngusMcFife]

13 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

 

If part of the package deal of signing Lamar includes Lamar making personnel decisions, then he's even less valuable than he thinks he is. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

2 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

If part of the package deal of signing Lamar includes Lamar making personnel decisions, then he's even less valuable than he thinks he is. 

I mean, to be fair, it's not like these requests are outlandish. They're basic necessities for fielding a successful team (the Hollywood thing aside).

Having a good OL and having actual competent WR's should be a non-starter.

[AngusMcFife]

12 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I mean, to be fair, it's not like these requests are outlandish. They're basic necessities for fielding a successful team (the Hollywood thing aside).

Having a good OL and having actual competent WR's should be a non-starter.

It's just a question of how they are presented. 

If the FO and coaching staff are collaborating with Lamar on how to best build the offense, that's good. 

If Lamar is holding the franchise hostage and saying he won't sign/play unless the FO signs players X, Y, and Z, that's bad. Especially if Lamar is only committing to the team for 1 year at a time. 

[Ray Reed]

I also viewed it more as a pushback against the "Ravens refuse to build around Lamar!" narrative that has gotten some traction throughout the media/online.

Like, he's handpicked a 1st round WR, essentially saw another 1st round pick (Linderbaum) taken because of his alleged wanting of OL help, and just got a handpicked FA WR.

For 5 years the team has - to the best of their ability - put a team around him that he specifically wants. The talking heads can spare me the woe is Lamar narrative. 

 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

30 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

It's just a question of how they are presented. 

If the FO and coaching staff are collaborating with Lamar on how to best build the offense, that's good. 

If Lamar is holding the franchise hostage and saying he won't sign/play unless the FO signs players X, Y, and Z, that's bad. Especially if Lamar is only committing to the team for 1 year at a time. 

For me personally I feel like the "Sign these WR's and I'll sign" is just him being beyond frustrated with the WR's he's had to work with and how the Ravens have essentially ignored/utterly failed at that position. It's one thing to take shots in the draft, but when you're the worst WR drafting team in the NFL, how much weight does that really hold vs. going out and getting established guys in FA?

We have absolutely no problem spending crazy FA money on defense, but when it comes to WR's suddenly it's "oh this guy is way overpriced" or whatever.

Edited April 20, 2023 by AFlaccoSeagulls

[AngusMcFife]

15 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

For me personally I feel like the "Sign these WR's and I'll sign" is just him being beyond frustrated with the WR's he's had to work with and how the Ravens have essentially ignored/utterly failed at that position. It's one thing to take shots in the draft, but when you're the worst WR drafting team in the NFL, how much weight does that really hold vs. going out and getting established guys in FA?

We have absolutely no problem spending crazy FA money on defense, but when it comes to WR's suddenly it's "oh this guy is way overpriced" or whatever.

Well it never made sense to invest big in WRs while Roman was the OC. It would not have been smart team building. 

I just think it turned out the for Lamar's first couple years, the Roman offense was good for him. The Ravens botched the transition, though, because the offense should have evolved into a balanced attack rather than a run-first scheme. But it was really hard to make that transition when Lamar is still not really attempting tight-window throws outside the hashes on a regular basis, WRs didn't want to come, and a lot of the offense got injured. 

If Lamar had issues with the offense, those should have been communicated a couple years ago, not now where he is holding the team hostage while not being under contract. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

16 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

Well it never made sense to invest big in WRs while Roman was the OC. It would not have been smart team building. 

I just think it turned out the for Lamar's first couple years, the Roman offense was good for him. The Ravens botched the transition, though, because the offense should have evolved into a balanced attack rather than a run-first scheme. But it was really hard to make that transition when Lamar is still not really attempting tight-window throws outside the hashes on a regular basis, WRs didn't want to come, and a lot of the offense got injured. 

If Lamar had issues with the offense, those should have been communicated a couple years ago, not now where he is holding the team hostage while not being under contract. 

How do we know it wasn't?

[AngusMcFife]

41 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

How do we know it wasn't?

I'm just speculating. But if Lamar made specific demands regarding what kind of offense he wanted to run and which coordinators he wanted fired a couple years ago and the Ravens ignored them, then I'd think the Ravens FO and coaching would be a lot less exasperated trying to sign him right now. 

If there were long-simmering tensions between Lamar and the FO, I feel like that would have come out one way or the other.

To me, now it seems like Lamar is trying to get the Ravens to load up on WR so he beef up his passing stats and hit FA next year. It's really harmful to the organization because we are not bringing in the best players to win, but to please Lamar. And who knows if we'll not be able to retain players long term because of bringing in Odell and dealing with a $11 million in dead money next year. 

IMO he is acting like LeBron trying to control the front office, but this isn't basketball and one players isn't that important, even a QB in the NFL. 

[SalvadorsDeli]

Let's say the remaining big moves we make this offseason are drafting a corner in the 1st round, trading for DeAndre Hopkins, and maybe also trading Patrick Queen to either directly or indirectly bring in draft capital to make the Hopkins deal. I wouldn't see that as anything other than a huge win - and moreso, moves that give us one of the most stacked rosters in the league. 

Which is another way of saying: if we end up trading for Hopkins then I don't really care if it's to pander to Lamar or not. If Lamar's playing out the season on the tag, then it's the right time to make some all-in moves and go for a championship. Best case scenario, these moves help get us to a point where Lamar signs long term. If he's doing this with the hopes of boosting his FA stock for next year, then we're going to enter a rebuilding stage next year no matter what - might as well go out with a blaze of glory and try to end the Lamar era with a Super Bowl.

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by SalvadorsDeli

[DreamKid]

Lamar supported one of his best friends and our most productive weapon leaving the team, all so Hollywood could try to land a max deal in a more pass friendly offense. That doesn't reek of a guy obsessing over loading up this team up with weapons. So the idea that Lamar has been put off by a lack of weapons in the past or that they are now demands = to the increase in pay he's seeking, doesn't ring true for me. 

The team needs more at WR and Lamar needs 'moves' that can be interpreted as concessions or gifts so when he inevitably doesn't get the money he wants he's able to save some pride- which is one of the key issues in these negotiations. So the pursuit of OBJ and potentially Hopkins, brings layered impact to the club.

[AngusMcFife]

4 hours ago, SalvadorsDeli said:

Let's say the remaining big moves we make this offseason are drafting a corner in the 1st round, trading for DeAndre Hopkins, and maybe also trading Patrick Queen to either directly or indirectly bring in draft capital to make the Hopkins deal. I wouldn't see that as anything other than a huge win - and moreso, moves that give us one of the most stacked rosters in the league. 

Which is another way of saying: if we end up trading for Hopkins then I don't really care if it's to pander to Lamar or not. If Lamar's playing out the season on the tag, then it's the right time to make some all-in moves and go for a championship. Best case scenario, these moves help get us to a point where Lamar signs long term. If he's doing this with the hopes of boosting his FA stock for next year, then we're going to enter a rebuilding stage next year no matter what - might as well go out with a blaze of glory and try to end the Lamar era with a Super Bowl.

 

Ok but if we do all that, lose in the playoffs, and then can't sign Madubuike, that's no good. The best version of this team is still one with a dominant running game and strong defense with Lamar making plays, rather than heavy passing attack with multiple weapons and a suspect defense. 

The idea that the best version of this team has $35 million tied up in OBJ and Hopkins is Madden-think. Given how Lamar plays, there are better ways to build around him. 

Lamar's alleged lobbying the team to get both WRs would be making the team worse although it would benefit Lamar's passing stats. That's just my opinion, though. There is the possibility that it could unlock a new level to the offense. But I just think the Ravens need to replenish a lot of defensive depth now.  

[SalvadorsDeli]

Genuinely if the cost of giving us the best chance we've had at winning the Super Bowl for at least 5 years if not a decade is potentially losing Justin Madibueke, then sign me up. This team really is that close enough to being special that it's worth the risk.

This whole idea that this is all 'Madden think' or whatever to me has just been thoroughly discredited by this point. It's the same hipster Ravens fan perspective that laughed at every move the Bengals made these past couple of years while they went ahead and built the Super Bowl contender everyone promised we were building with our super smart/savvy 'weapons are overrated' outlook. The Eagles with Hurts are an even more direct example of why that kind of thinking is off base -- they've shown exactly what happens when you give a mobile QB a good offensive line and weapons in the passing game. To me this whole idea that you have to build so differently around Lamar has always been off base - if it's actually true then what people are saying is just that Lamar shouldn't be our QB. 

And let's say Lamar did get crazy weapons and couldn't take advantage of it? That would be good to know too. It allows us to move on next year without any what-ifs. On his franchise tag year, it's the perfect prove-it situation for everyone involved. 

All that said, I don't expect us to be in hard for Hopkins. But if we did get him? It's just overthinking it to think that's anything other than a huge win. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by SalvadorsDeli