holt_bruce81 Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 And Mo needs to stop screwing around and just throw like 5 years/$160 million at Gerrit Cole this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 9 hours ago, holt_bruce81 said: Anyone see that Reyes is feeling discomfort in his shoulder and is flying back to St. Louis to get checked out. Probably done for the season. Really sucks that the likelihood of Reyes being the pitcher everyone thought he'd be is becoming more and more less likely. Yah, unfortunately injuries continue to stand in his way. I think if he could ever stay healthy, he could figure it out and be a quality arm. He may never reach that elite status we all thought, but still be a very good player... Jury is still out on him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 9 hours ago, holt_bruce81 said: And believe me there's plenty of blame to put on Mo. The roster moves this team has made all throughout the season have me questioning the decisions of the front office a lot more than I ever have in years past. Why the hell has Wacha gotten so many chances in the rotation? Why bring up Genesis Cabrera when they did? Why screw with Helsley and flip him from starter to bullpen back to starter? WHERE THE F IS RANDY GOD DAMN AROZARENA? Why play Jose Martinez over Lane Thomas? Why are we seeing so much Tommy Edman and Munoz? Why'd it take 4 months for them finally to send Bader down? See that's my issue though. Some of those things you listed aren't the FO's doing. They don't meddle in the daily lineup. That a Schildt issue... I don't want to come across as a Mo and company apologist, because I'm not. I 100% agree the FO has a good portion of blame and agree with your assessment on poor in season roster management this year. But for fans to act like the players aren't the main blame is asinine IMO... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 9 hours ago, holt_bruce81 said: And Mo needs to stop screwing around and just throw like 5 years/$160 million at Gerrit Cole this offseason. We're gonna have to add externally somehow this offseason. The only three guys you can truly pencil into the rotation are Mikolas, Flaherty and CMart. Even CMart has some questions attached... Dakota Hudson is definitely in play as 4th piece, but questions on him as well... The likes of Gomber, Ponce and Reyes are all even bigger question marks... We need some innings we can depend on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 (edited) Im going to take these thoughts that you have laid out, and are widely held by the BFIB crew this year, one at a time because they are varying degrees of rubbish; 14 hours ago, ttitansfan4life said: He thought the outfield was too crowded sign Harper. Just stop with this garbage. Yes I know that has been a misconstrued quote out there, but its no where near the reality. Harper wasnt coming here, it just wasnt ever in the realm of possibility. He was going to a major market, to a historic franchise to grow his brand (or back to the Nats). We fit into one of those two categories, not both. So what is Mo going to say? "one of the best players in baseball wants nothing to do with our franchise, just like most Stars under the age of 30, because we are based in a pretty boring flyover city" Because that would go over really well. If there was a legit chance Harper could have been here, the other OF guys we have wouldnt have anything to do with it, maybe the money but tats it. He is just pumping up his guys, thats it, nothing more. And how last year ended, and with some of the play this year, he wasnt wrong to be excited. 14 hours ago, ttitansfan4life said: Who brought those players in though? You mean those same exact players who surged this team into 1st place going into the Deadline? Oh yea, you cant have it both ways. They have suddenly stopped playing well, and if thats because "we didnt get any help" then they are weak willed and they all need to go. Now I dont believe that is the truth, I think its all circumstantial, and baseball has always been a game of runs. A) its a west coast road trip, thats already going to be rough B) it was against a Hot A' team whos is 7-3 in the last 10, and then arguably the best team in Baseball. And all this whining about Mo not getting a Starter, Our entire staff could have an ERA of 2.00 or under since the deadline, and we still only win like 1 more game than we have. The Hitting has disappeared, thats the problem, and I didnt se a single one of you screaming that we needed a bat. Speaking of... 14 hours ago, ttitansfan4life said: He’s done nothing with the rotation except bring a bum back into it(Wacha) which ended up being a failure(shocker). Yea, all he did was build one of the most respected pitching farm systems in the league. Thats all. Its really convenient to ignore the fact that we used those guys to get 2 big hitters, and some of the others ended up injured. He also went and found a Gem from Japan, and locked him up as well. Is it his fault that the guy who was our #1 for 3 years is suddenly mentally weak and cant throw more than 30 pitches? That might be just as bad as Reyes' continued injures. And if you were just speaking of this year, then I will point you back to what any decent pitchers actually cost. Outside of Stroman (which the rest of the league should be pissed at) it was huge overpays for average or less arms. If a package for Robie Ray STARTED with Clint Fraizer, we never had a shot We now have the next 9 against sub .500 teams, some of the worst out there right now. If we only get 4/5 wins before playing the Brewers, then yes this team is done. But when they go 7-2 or better and you are all pumped going into the Milwaukee series, Im going to remind you all of how you gave up on everything because of a bad West Coast trip. Not to mention, outside for the 2 Brewers series, we have 27 of the next 33 games against sub .500 teams that are mostly out of any races. This team is far from out of it, but im glad you all have thrown in the towel on the entire franchise because we didnt pick up Tanner Roark. Edited August 8, 2019 by StLunatic88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 11 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: We now have the next 9 against sub .500 teams, some of the worst out there right now. If we only get 4/5 wins before playing the Brewers, then yes this team is done. But when they go 7-2 or better and you are all pumped going into the Milwaukee series, Im going to remind you all of how you gave up on everything because of a bad West Coast trip. Not to mention, outside for the 2 Brewers series, we have 27 of the next 33 games against sub .500 teams that are mostly out of any races. This team is far from out of it, but im glad you all have thrown in the towel on the entire franchise because we didnt pick up Tanner Roark. Hey now, no one said anything about giving up on everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 I'm actually glad we got it handed to us by the Dodgers at this point in the year... All roads are going to go through them to the WS, so you know what it's going to take to beat them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted August 8, 2019 Author Share Posted August 8, 2019 12 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said: More than half this roster is homegrown, so not sure how that's a fault. Mo and the front office have made some bad moves in hindsight (the Fowler contract, the Carp extension, the Pham deal just to name a few) There have also been some really good moves (Goldy trade, Molina extension, Gallegos deal). You take the good with the bad and overall there's been more good than bad. We all wanted Harper, but in hindsight I think we're better off without him. You wanna reference bad deals? His would be up there amongst the worst. He's been a 1.8 WAR player this year. Yikes... You keep referencing that Mo did nothing to add to the rotation at deadline, but once again was that his fault? I think if you look at it objectively, it was dictated by the market. Who would you have wanted that got moved? Greinke was really the only one of value and we weren't going to outbid Houston with their farm system... We're all frustrated with the way the last 3 years have gone and Mo and company definitely have a big part in it. But let's not act like this is squarely on him. He's brought in talent that simply hasn't performed to expectations or their career norms... I mean, what notable homegrown players has Mozeliak really currently have on our roster? Just for comparison, the Cubs sport 4 players with 120+ wRC+ right now (Baez, Bryant, Rizzo, and Contreras). The Cardinals have zero. The Brewers have one. Just for comparison, our best bat (Marcell Ozuna) would rank 4th on the Brewers. That's not going to get it done. We're a deeply flawed team and it's showing. The coaching staff isn't making things any easier by trying to reinvent the wheel here. Tommy Edman is sporting a 73 wRC+ and he's an INF. But you're seeing him being ran out in RF. Why? The Cardinals need a hard reboot, which is frustrating because that's something that's been clear for over a year now. The farm system isn't very strong, and the big league core is on the wrong side of 30. This offseason, they should be listening to offers on everyone not named Jack Flaherty or Paul DeJong, and even then if the right offer came around I'd move them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted August 8, 2019 Author Share Posted August 8, 2019 10 hours ago, holt_bruce81 said: This team was pretty well put together in Spring training. Was it though? The rotation questions weren't going to go away. Jack Flaherty and Miles Mikolas were the only SP that I felt comfortable in. Dakota Hudson was a relative unknown, and he was viewed more as a BOR starter. Michael Wacha hasn't been able to keep his rotation spot in a few years, and we didn't know what to get out of Adam Wainwright. The lineup was a bit more appealing, but the SP was atrocious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 11 minutes ago, CWood21 said: I mean, what notable homegrown players has Mozeliak really currently have on our roster? Just for comparison, the Cubs sport 4 players with 120+ wRC+ right now (Baez, Bryant, Rizzo, and Contreras). The Cardinals have zero. The Cubs also sucked for how long? As soon as Ownership AND the BFIB would swallow a season of us sucking, then you can start comparing us to the Cubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Was it though? The rotation questions weren't going to go away. Jack Flaherty and Miles Mikolas were the only SP that I felt comfortable in. Dakota Hudson was a relative unknown, and he was viewed more as a BOR starter. Michael Wacha hasn't been able to keep his rotation spot in a few years, and we didn't know what to get out of Adam Wainwright. The lineup was a bit more appealing, but the SP was atrocious. I think we all agreed on that during the offseason, BUT we also had a huge hole (or two) in the lineup. We needed a Heart of the Order bat and a Face to this Franchise, and he went out and got that done, got him locked up, and everyone like to pretend that wasnt part of this offseason. To me, the root of all our problems is still the Fowler contract. It is clogging up the the Outfield, and it is a complete anchor on the Payroll. And until Ownership agrees to just give up on him as a sunk cost, this entire team will be held back. Edited August 8, 2019 by StLunatic88 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, CWood21 said: I mean, what notable homegrown players has Mozeliak really currently have on our roster? Just for comparison, the Cubs sport 4 players with 120+ wRC+ right now (Baez, Bryant, Rizzo, and Contreras). The Cardinals have zero. The Brewers have one. Just for comparison, our best bat (Marcell Ozuna) would rank 4th on the Brewers. That's not going to get it done. We're a deeply flawed team and it's showing. The coaching staff isn't making things any easier by trying to reinvent the wheel here. Tommy Edman is sporting a 73 wRC+ and he's an INF. But you're seeing him being ran out in RF. Why? The Cardinals need a hard reboot, which is frustrating because that's something that's been clear for over a year now. The farm system isn't very strong, and the big league core is on the wrong side of 30. This offseason, they should be listening to offers on everyone not named Jack Flaherty or Paul DeJong, and even then if the right offer came around I'd move them. You're referencing players on the Cubs that were either high draft or lottery picks from their tank years, or guys they acquired via trade. It's not comparing apples to apples because we've never been in the former position... Both Brewers and Cubs also play 82 games in two of the more hitter centric parks in all of MLB which definitely plays a degree in overall production... I'd put Flaherty, Carlos, Carpenter, DeJong and Hicks all into that homegrown group that have shown to be higher performers either this year, or in recent past that are still factors to this current roster... I think we all know this roster needs churning now in hindsight, but I don't think any of us can say that the FO hasn't tried to add significant pieces externally over the last two years to improve this club and we've had to use our homegrown talent to make those deals... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 21 minutes ago, CWood21 said: I mean, what notable homegrown players has Mozeliak really currently have on our roster? Just for comparison, the Cubs sport 4 players with 120+ wRC+ right now (Baez, Bryant, Rizzo, and Contreras). The Cardinals have zero. The Brewers have one. Just for comparison, our best bat (Marcell Ozuna) would rank 4th on the Brewers. That's not going to get it done. We're a deeply flawed team and it's showing. The coaching staff isn't making things any easier by trying to reinvent the wheel here. Tommy Edman is sporting a 73 wRC+ and he's an INF. But you're seeing him being ran out in RF. Why? The Cardinals need a hard reboot, which is frustrating because that's something that's been clear for over a year now. The farm system isn't very strong, and the big league core is on the wrong side of 30. This offseason, they should be listening to offers on everyone not named Jack Flaherty or Paul DeJong, and even then if the right offer came around I'd move them. I think the farm system is a lot stronger than people give it credit for. We rank 16th in baseball (according to BA) And have 2 prospects in the top 50. And I think Keith Law has Gorman and Carlson both ranked in the top 30. Elehuris Montero was ranked in the top 100 by BA before the season and before injuries kind of derailed his season in AA. And we probably have 2 guys that should be in the top 100 next year in Randy Arozarena and Ivan Herrera. The pitching depth took a hit, but that's to be expected when you trade away Luke Weaver, Zac Gallen and Sandy Alcantara the past two off-seasons for some much needed Bats. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 51 minutes ago, holt_bruce81 said: Hey now, no one said anything about giving up on everything. Well some on here, and just about everyone I know on Twitter that I would catagorize as BFIB are doing nothing but screaming for Mo's head, and calling this season a failure already. I may have gotten carried away in my post with people on this Forum, but Im just tired of seeing it on Twitter. and hearing it on Talk Radio around here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 26 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Was it though? The rotation questions weren't going to go away. Jack Flaherty and Miles Mikolas were the only SP that I felt comfortable in. Dakota Hudson was a relative unknown, and he was viewed more as a BOR starter. Michael Wacha hasn't been able to keep his rotation spot in a few years, and we didn't know what to get out of Adam Wainwright. The lineup was a bit more appealing, but the SP was atrocious. We had 9 internal guys that were looked at as being potential rotation pieces going into the year. It's not like we went into year empty handed... Don't think anyone saw the injuries piling up like they did, or the regression of Wacha to the level it is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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