StLunatic88 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 41 minutes ago, twslhs20 said: I feel like there nothing we can do to save this season. Can’t remember I I said it here. But I just don’t even like this team. I like some of the guys. And the young pitching is always enticing. But I’m just sick of so many of these guys, starting with Matheny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twslhs20 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 27 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: Can’t remember I I said it here. But I just don’t even like this team. I like some of the guys. And the young pitching is always enticing. But I’m just sick of so many of these guys, starting with Matheny MM wore out his welcome 2 years ago imo. It almost feels like we need a complete rebuild minus the pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, twslhs20 said: It almost feels like we need a complete rebuild minus the pitching. The last time we had a Top 10 pick was what 1998? (JD Drew?) Its almost a miracle that we have sustained the franchise at this level for that long without one Top of the Draft prospect coming through (look at what the Astros & Cubs had to go though) Especially since we lost Oscar. If we could essentially sell off this team for scraps mid season (while retaining as little money as possible) it would be the best thing for us. Give away this season, go with a young squad next that can scrap, and really shoot for 2020 as the year we contend again. As far as "Vets" go, Id hang onto Carlos, Yadi (even though he may not like it) Ozuna and DeJong. Ship out the rest (including Wong and Jose) and lets run the youngsters out there for 3+ months to find out what we really have. Bader - CF O'Neill - RF DeJong - SS Ozuna - LF Yadi - C Voit - 1B Garcia - 3B Schrock - 2B Pitcher - P I feel like I could get behind, and have alot of fun with that team (obviously knowing that we are just young and Scrappy now, not expecting to be contenders the rest of the year) and heck, it could be an even quicker turn around through Free Agent moves if we can move big chunks of the contracts that are currently holding us down. Edited July 2, 2018 by StLunatic88 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 4 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: If we could essentially sell off this team for scraps mid season (while retaining as little money as possible) it would be the best thing for us. Give away this season, go with a young squad next that can scrap, and really shoot for 2020 as the year we contend again. As far as "Vets" go, Id hang onto Carlos, Yadi (even though he may not like it) Ozuna and DeJong. Ship out the rest (including Wong and Jose) and lets run the youngsters out there for 3+ months to find out what we really have. I'd seriously consider offers on Carlos Martinez if the Cardinals went into a rebuild. It'd have to be a haul though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 2 hours ago, CWood21 said: I'd seriously consider offers on Carlos Martinez if the Cardinals went into a rebuild. It'd have to be a haul though. It would have to be a kings ransom for me to move him. I’d hang onto him like the Mariners did with Felix. If we have a true ace (which I believe Carlos can be) and potentially 2 of them I’d Reyes can get healthy, that rebuild is only 1-1.5 years instead of 3-4 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Anyone see MO come out and publicly question Fowler's effort? I love it... Wish the manager would do this too instead of always defending... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said: Anyone see MO come out and publicly question Fowler's effort? I love it... Wish the manager would do this too instead of always defending... This morning listening to Bernie, he threw a Quote out there from back in 2013 from Dan O’Dowd, who was the Rockies GM when Dex was playing for them...that kind of questioned Fowler’s effort as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Well, I’m all for selling. I’m not sure about Carlos, though. I think we have youth to build on. We just need to scrape away the top layer of slightly above average talent to get to it. Carpenter, Gyorko, JMartinez, Mikolas, Fowler, Wong(as much as I’d hate it) all need to go. We could get some interesting pieces for those guys. Maybe pair a young pitcher into the deal to pull some big time prospects. I think we’ve got some real talent in the lower minors that should be ready within 2-3 years too. I think this offseason/deadline could be a massive boost to this team for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Meh, i think I can Get behind getting rid of some of these guy...Gyorko, JMartinez, Fowler, Wong...but I don’t think we need to go full rebuild here, and I’m definitely not trading away Carlos Martinez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 2 hours ago, holt_bruce81 said: Meh, i think I can Get behind getting rid of some of these guy...Gyorko, JMartinez, Fowler, Wong...but I don’t think we need to go full rebuild here, and I’m definitely not trading away Carlos Martinez. I think we could get some nice pieces without shipping out Carlos. I mean, we already know he’s good and he’s young and fairly affordable. I think we already have some really great pieces in our minors. I think our latest first rounder is going to be a stud. Like a key building block type of player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 It’s a shame Yadi got hurt. He’d probably be the leading vote getter for catchers if he was healthy all year. Deservedly so. He’d probably have 3-5 more HR and 15 more RBI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said: It’s a shame Yadi got hurt. He’d probably be the leading vote getter for catchers if he was healthy all year. Deservedly so. He’d probably have 3-5 more HR and 15 more RBI. Kinda like that he’s going to be getting some rest now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted July 4, 2018 Author Share Posted July 4, 2018 11 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said: Well, I’m all for selling. I’m not sure about Carlos, though. I think we have youth to build on. We just need to scrape away the top layer of slightly above average talent to get to it. Carpenter, Gyorko, JMartinez, Mikolas, Fowler, Wong(as much as I’d hate it) all need to go. We could get some interesting pieces for those guys. Maybe pair a young pitcher into the deal to pull some big time prospects. I think we’ve got some real talent in the lower minors that should be ready within 2-3 years too. I think this offseason/deadline could be a massive boost to this team for the future. Let me be clear, I'm only giving up Carlos Martinez if we're getting a haul. That means 3-4 top prospects and pretty darn close to MLB-ready. I'm not giving him up just to give him up. As far as that second tier of list, we're probably not going to get a whole lot. Carpenter's value isn't going anywhere but down. We should have dealt Jedd Gyorko last deadline, but the Cardinals passed. I think people are going to be skeptical of Jose Martinez's success. Maybe another Pham situation? Fowler is going to have to eat almost his entire salary and pray he's willing to waive his NTC. Wong I'm not sure is much more than a salary dump given how bad he's been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 On 7/4/2018 at 1:18 AM, CWood21 said: Let me be clear, I'm only giving up Carlos Martinez if we're getting a haul. That means 3-4 top prospects and pretty darn close to MLB-ready. I'm not giving him up just to give him up. As far as that second tier of list, we're probably not going to get a whole lot. Carpenter's value isn't going anywhere but down. We should have dealt Jedd Gyorko last deadline, but the Cardinals passed. I think people are going to be skeptical of Jose Martinez's success. Maybe another Pham situation? Fowler is going to have to eat almost his entire salary and pray he's willing to waive his NTC. Wong I'm not sure is much more than a salary dump given how bad he's been. Which is why, for the most part, Id be looking to dump the salaries, and not worry as much about the prospects coming back. Maybe we could find an AL team that needs to solidify their lineup and we can package Carpenter and Jose for a decent little return. If Pham can turn it around for a bit, MAYBE we get something good for him Dex is just a dump I actually might hang onto Jedd for this year, and try to move him in the offseason Mikolas or Wacha could bring us he most in return at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 4 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: Which is why, for the most part, Id be looking to dump the salaries, and not worry as much about the prospects coming back. Maybe we could find an AL team that needs to solidify their lineup and we can package Carpenter and Jose for a decent little return. If Pham can turn it around for a bit, MAYBE we get something good for him Dex is just a dump I actually might hang onto Jedd for this year, and try to move him in the offseason Mikolas or Wacha could bring us he most in return at this point. Honestly, I hate that mentality. But beyond Dexter Fowler, I don't think the Cardinals are going to have to eat salary. If we're going down the list, I think Matt Carpenter has value. I don't think you're getting a blue chip prospect. Even if you get 3 WAR over the rest of that contract, that comes out to around ~$25M in surplus value. I think best case scenario, you're getting a back-end top 100 prospect plus another solid prospect and a wild card. Or perhaps you take two really good, but not great prospects. Honestly, I have no real way to evaluate how much we'd get for Jose Martinez. We're selling low on Pham right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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