The STL Cardinals Thread - Welcome to STL JJ!

[MOSteelers56]

19 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Definitely a different feel than in year's past.  Most of our talent is in the lower minors, which is testament of how much talent they've promoted in the last few years.  We've got 3 legitimate middle of the order bats in our farm system.

I'm glad the FO moved with the crowd and started drafting hitters. I think the Cubs proved that was the way to draft to win. It's arguably more impressive since we've been doing it while sort of chasing the playoffs at the same time. Plus we keep our pitching stocked. The FO has done a fantastic job at future team building. I want to give them more time before they lose their jobs. I think Matheny was REALLY holding the team and organization back. Too many things were done to placate him. I'm fine with having a paper pusher manager. The game is different now. 

Who are your middle of the order guys? Just curious. 

[StLunatic88]

30 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Definitely a different feel than in year's past.

I think this is the key, it feels different, because all the talent had been on the pitching side for like the past decade, sprinkled with an Outfielder and a Utility guys. Which is great, but isnt as exciting. When you have hitters up and down the system, it gets really exciting.

[MOSteelers56]

Looks like Ross is getting activated tonight and will be working as a reliever at first. I'd bet he'll get some starts, though. I'm really enjoying Shildt's bullpen use.

Edited August 7, 2018 by MOSteelers56

[holt_bruce81]

 

[holt_bruce81]

 

[CWood21]

22 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I'm glad the FO moved with the crowd and started drafting hitters. I think the Cubs proved that was the way to draft to win. It's arguably more impressive since we've been doing it while sort of chasing the playoffs at the same time. Plus we keep our pitching stocked. The FO has done a fantastic job at future team building. I want to give them more time before they lose their jobs. I think Matheny was REALLY holding the team and organization back. Too many things were done to placate him. I'm fine with having a paper pusher manager. The game is different now. 

Who are your middle of the order guys? Just curious. 

I'm not sure how much of it is a philosophical change as much as it's as it's an opportunity.  There was a few years when they went super pitching heavy, but overall they tend to stick to a 50/50 split in terms of drafting pitchers and positional players in the early rounds.  They just tend to draft pitchers early before, and they've invested more in positional players.  But I think the Cardinals had their eyes open when they were shopping for a bat and didn't realize how expensive bats would be.

As for the middle of the order hitters, I think the two obvious ones are Elehuris Montero and Nolan Gorman.  They're probably still 2-3 years away.  I think Dylan Carlson could be that guy if he hits with more power.

[CWood21]

On 8/7/2018 at 1:38 PM, StLunatic88 said:

I think this is the key, it feels different, because all the talent had been on the pitching side for like the past decade, sprinkled with an Outfielder and a Utility guys. Which is great, but isnt as exciting. When you have hitters up and down the system, it gets really exciting.

I think they're drafting different types of positional players.  Several years ago, they put a premium on high contact skills who were safe bets to play up the middle.  In 2011, they took Charlie Tilson (CF), CJ McElroy (CF), Kenny Peoples-Wall (SS/CF), Adam Ehrlich (C), and Lance Jeffries (CF) in the first 10 rounds.  Since then, they seem to move past that and put less value on positions up the middle and taking hitters with advanced hit tools and power upside rather than known power and questionable hit tools.  2008 was really the first year with the revamped draft and develop system.

2008: Brett Wallace was the highest draft pick we've had in a LONG time, and he was an advanced college bat who they thought would fly through the system.  Lance Lynn was a high floor SP prospect with limited upside, but managed to touch into more velocity.  Niko Vasquez was their big upside play in this draft, but overall the focus seemed to be on high floor players.
2009: Shelby Miller was the type of prospect that the Cardinals didn't normally get a chance to draft, was a top 10 prospect.  Robert Stock was their gamble, and shown a premium on position.  Again, seems to focus on high floors.  Joe Kelly figure to be a BOR starter, potential late inning reliever.
2010: Zack Cox was an advanced college bat and should have moved through the system.  Should probably be viewed similar to Wallace in that regard.  Tyrell Jenkins was the first SP prospect that I think fits our current mold of athletic pitchers with an advanced feel for a change-up.
2011: Kolten Wong was a high floor prospect, much like Cox.  Put a premium on up the middle positional players this year.
2012: Advanced college SP with a strong feel for a change with Wacha.  Drafted 3 different third baseman with Piscotty, Kelly, and Wisdom.  Only Wisdom stuck at 3B.  Paired with high floor players Tim Cooney, Alex Mejia, and James Ramsey.
2013: Marco Gonzales was advanced college SP with a strong feel for his change.  Rob Kaminsky was athletic with a strong feel for a change, and advanced curve.  Oscar Mercado was their toolsy athlete type, but different mold than before.
2014: Luke Weaver fits the same mold as Wacha/Gonzales.  Jack Flaherty and Ronnie Williams were both athletic HS pitchers with advanced feel for their change-up.
2015: Probably their most diverse draft.  Plummer had the advanced hit tool, but didn't consistently hit with power.  Bryce Denton was the opposite.  Jake Woodford didn't have the big athletic upside that previous HS pitching prospects did.  Jordan Hicks did.
2016: Delvin Perez was a gamble they couldn't pass up like Shelby Miller.  Dylan Carlson had an advanced tool with projectable power.  Dakota Hudson fits the same mold as Wacha/Gonzales/Weaver.  Connor Jones and Zac Gallen did as well.
2017: Probably the anomaly given the fact that we didn't have a first or second round pick, wouldn't read too much into this draft.  Clearly drafted high floor players.
2018: Nolan Gorman definitely breaks the mold of the usual HS position player they want, but could argue he fits in the same group as Delvin Perez as player they don't normally get a chance at.  Griffin Roberts isn't quite as advanced as their usual college pitchers.  Luken Baker was drafted purely on his hit tool, position be damned.  Mateo Gil was their athlete gamble, and Gingery was their injury gamble.

I'm not going to say they're only going to take certain types of players, but they seem to have a clear preference for their draft picks.  In terms of HS pitchers, they seem to prefer athletic arms with clean pitching motion and an advanced feel for their change-up.  As for college pitchers, they usually draft advanced pitchers with at least one out pitch and strong ground ball tendencies.  As for HS positional players, they don't seem to have a strong enough tendency one way or the other but they seem to prefer guys with advanced hit tools and good strike zone judgment.  They generally don't draft a whole lot of college bats in general, but most tend to have a high floor.

[CWood21]

Nolan Gorman got his first hit for Peoria.  It was a HR of course.

[kgarrett12486]

Good emergency start from Ross today. He hadn't pitched since August 5th.

[yoinesh123]

I haven't been on in quite some time due to college and life comes at you fast. Although I'm heading back tommorow overseas, I should be on a bit more. Since the Matheny firing we have gone 16-9..... definitely Matheny was holding this team back. Really excited about the 3B we have in our system. Elehuris Montero, Nolan Gorman, and Evan Mendoza all look to be studs although Montero and maybe Gorman probably won't end up sticking at 3B. I really like Malcom Nunez although he is playing in the DSL so take the stats for granted. More to come

[holt_bruce81]

Man, I can't remember the last time I was this excited about this team. What a game last night! And Dakota Hudson is nasty. 

[holt_bruce81]

Carlos Martinez to the BP is a little crazy to me. 

[MOSteelers56]

28 minutes ago, holt_bruce81 said:

Carlos Martinez to the BP is a little crazy to me. 

I figure they won't have time to get him properly stretched out this season. I bet they'll use him in some high leverage spots with a few multi inning appearances thrown in. 

[StLunatic88]

40 minutes ago, holt_bruce81 said:

Man, I can't remember the last time I was this excited about this team. What a game last night! And Dakota Hudson is nasty. 

I was there, it was a fun game, but to be honest you still see alot of issues to this team. Not only the dumb decision to leave Bud Norris in as long as they did (just didnt have it, and even Shildt is stuck in the "closer" mentality) but we had what 17 hits and only 7 runs? That is unacceptable, you cant leave that many guys on base.

We also got extremely lucky that the Nats were too dumb to Intentionally Walk Carpenter after the wild pitch, because you had a very high chance Yadi goes GIDP. 

[holt_bruce81]

54 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

I was there, it was a fun game, but to be honest you still see alot of issues to this team. Not only the dumb decision to leave Bud Norris in as long as they did (just didnt have it, and even Shildt is stuck in the "closer" mentality) but we had what 17 hits and only 7 runs? That is unacceptable, you cant leave that many guys on base.

We also got extremely lucky that the Nats were too dumb to Intentionally Walk Carpenter after the wild pitch, because you had a very high chance Yadi goes GIDP. 

Alright.