The STL Cardinals Thread - Welcome to STL JJ!

[holt_bruce81]

Matz torn MCL. Probably done for season. 

[MOSteelers56]

Just now, holt_bruce81 said:

Matz torn MCL. Probably done for season. 

At least it was before the deadline. 

[MOSteelers56]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

I would assume that O'Neill would slide over to RF, and Walker would play LF.

Yeah, that’s a good call.

[ttitansfan4life]

 

[CWood21]

35 minutes ago, ttitansfan4life said:

 

I feel like the framework is pretty much set, just depends on what the Nationals are wanting.  I'm not opposed to taking back Patrick Corbin, but I'm not giving up Jordan Walker if the Cardinals are taking on Corbin's contract.  And if the Cardinals are sending Jordan Walker, then the Nationals can take back Tyler O'Neill and not Dylan Carlson.  I think you get one of Nolan Gorman or Masyn Winn, but not both.  As far as pitchers go, I think the biggest question is do the Nationals gamble on upside of Tink Hence or prefer Matt Liberatore.  I think you're probably including either Michael McGreevy or Gordon Graceffo in the deal as well.

[kgarrett12486]

7 hours ago, CWood21 said:

I would assume that O'Neill would slide over to RF, and Walker would play LF.

I think it would be opposite. They'd keep O'Neill in LF and put Walker in RF. I've heard that's where they prefer him given his arm.

[JonStark]

11 hours ago, CWood21 said:

I feel like the framework is pretty much set, just depends on what the Nationals are wanting.  I'm not opposed to taking back Patrick Corbin, but I'm not giving up Jordan Walker if the Cardinals are taking on Corbin's contract.  And if the Cardinals are sending Jordan Walker, then the Nationals can take back Tyler O'Neill and not Dylan Carlson.  I think you get one of Nolan Gorman or Masyn Winn, but not both.  As far as pitchers go, I think the biggest question is do the Nationals gamble on upside of Tink Hence or prefer Matt Liberatore.  I think you're probably including either Michael McGreevy or Gordon Graceffo in the deal as well.

My thoughts exactly, except they need to stay away from Tink. 

[kgarrett12486]

2 hours ago, JonStark said:

My thoughts exactly, except they need to stay away from Tink. 

They won't. From what I've heard, they have no interest in Liberatore, as they don't view him as a FOTR starter. 

[MOSteelers56]

What’s the consensus on going for Syndergaard? Middle of the rotation guy at this point, but is still building back up. He’s definitely not what he was in his prime but he could be a nice addition. 
 

Speaking of the Angels and completely hypothetically, but what would you give up for Trout? I doubt they’re going to do anything but continue to waste his career but can you imagine a lineup of Trout, Goldy, Nado? Giving me MV3 vibes.

[ttitansfan4life]

Let me ask you guys this…. I keep seeing a Soto deal would be about building for the future. I see the exact opposite. I mean you’re trading your future top prospects away for 2 1/2 seasons(at least) for Soto. To me, that’s more about going all in this season. The problem is, this rotation/bullpen isn’t winning a pennant let alone a WS. So is the goal to win every game 7-6? I assume if we trade for Soto, guys like Montas are off the table and we’re like looking at MOR guys like Thor. Matz is going to miss numerous weeks if not the rest of the season. So we’re left with Waino, Mikolas, Pallante, and Hudson when he gets back. Guys like Thompson and Libby are the 5th starters but we shouldn’t be relying on them. I’d love Pallante and Thompson in the bullpen by the end of the season but we’re going to need at least two starters IMO.

[MOSteelers56]

23 minutes ago, ttitansfan4life said:

Let me ask you guys this…. I keep seeing a Soto deal would be about building for the future. I see the exact opposite. I mean you’re trading your future top prospects away for 2 1/2 seasons(at least) for Soto. To me, that’s more about going all in this season. The problem is, this rotation/bullpen isn’t winning a pennant let alone a WS. So is the goal to win every game 7-6? I assume if we trade for Soto, guys like Montas are off the table and we’re like looking at MOR guys like Thor. Matz is going to miss numerous weeks if not the rest of the season. So we’re left with Waino, Mikolas, Pallante, and Hudson when he gets back. Guys like Thompson and Libby are the 5th starters but we shouldn’t be relying on them. I’d love Pallante and Thompson in the bullpen by the end of the season but we’re going to need at least two starters IMO.

I haven’t seen anyone say the Soto move is for the future. I’m not on Twitter, though. I also don’t have a radio station that plays cards stuff, so I’m not super in touch with the diehards. Except on here that is. I agree with you that it is a win now move. I would like to have Soto as he’s a phenom, but the biggest need is pitching definitely. Our offense is good enough to win a WS with the pieces we have now(though Bader being back would really help). I think O’Neil stabilizes in the back half and has another good year. Our pitching isn’t at all good enough. I trust Mikolas and to an extent Waino. Hudson isn’t good. Pallante and Thompson show flashes but I don’t think they’re there yet. Libby doesn’t look special. Oviedo isn’t there. We’ve currently got 1 1/2 good starters and our #1 isn’t really an anchor. 

[JonStark]

1 hour ago, MOSteelers56 said:

What’s the consensus on going for Syndergaard? Middle of the rotation guy at this point, but is still building back up. He’s definitely not what he was in his prime but he could be a nice addition. 
 

Speaking of the Angels and completely hypothetically, but what would you give up for Trout? I doubt they’re going to do anything but continue to waste his career but can you imagine a lineup of Trout, Goldy, Nado? Giving me MV3 vibes.

I'd be all for Thor. Wouldn't cost much and it's not like he's washed. He's been pretty good when pitching at home and I think could benefit from a change of scenery (especially to STL). 

With all the Soto talk, I'd be lying if I didn't say I was curious what it would take to get Trout. Obviously it's a pipe dream but compared to some of these Soto offers going around, how much more could they really ask for?

[holt_bruce81]

1 hour ago, ttitansfan4life said:

Let me ask you guys this…. I keep seeing a Soto deal would be about building for the future. I see the exact opposite. I mean you’re trading your future top prospects away for 2 1/2 seasons(at least) for Soto. To me, that’s more about going all in this season. The problem is, this rotation/bullpen isn’t winning a pennant let alone a WS. So is the goal to win every game 7-6? I assume if we trade for Soto, guys like Montas are off the table and we’re like looking at MOR guys like Thor. Matz is going to miss numerous weeks if not the rest of the season. So we’re left with Waino, Mikolas, Pallante, and Hudson when he gets back. Guys like Thompson and Libby are the 5th starters but we shouldn’t be relying on them. I’d love Pallante and Thompson in the bullpen by the end of the season but we’re going to need at least two starters IMO.

I could totally be wrong on my thought process here but I’m starting to change my mindset when it comes to how important starting pitching is in the majors. 5-10 years ago I think It was everyone’s opinion that you needed at least 3 very good starting pitchers to compete for a World Series. But now I believe it’s more about the entire 13-man pitching staff. Because the playoffs are played differently now. Teams don’t rely on their starters to carry them, it’s all about matchups. While trading for an “innings eater” isn’t a sexy acquisition it allows the team to slide guys like Pallante and Thompson into the roles best suited for them this year. 

I think if you trade for Jose Quintana or Thor and push Pallente and Thompson to Bullpen roles, you have a strong enough 13-man unit to where you can compete. 

[kgarrett12486]

1 hour ago, ttitansfan4life said:

Let me ask you guys this…. I keep seeing a Soto deal would be about building for the future. I see the exact opposite. I mean you’re trading your future top prospects away for 2 1/2 seasons(at least) for Soto. To me, that’s more about going all in this season. The problem is, this rotation/bullpen isn’t winning a pennant let alone a WS. So is the goal to win every game 7-6? I assume if we trade for Soto, guys like Montas are off the table and we’re like looking at MOR guys like Thor. Matz is going to miss numerous weeks if not the rest of the season. So we’re left with Waino, Mikolas, Pallante, and Hudson when he gets back. Guys like Thompson and Libby are the 5th starters but we shouldn’t be relying on them. I’d love Pallante and Thompson in the bullpen by the end of the season but we’re going to need at least two starters IMO.

 

Who is saying the Soto trade would be for the future. I haven't heard that sentiment at all, as most know Boras will almost assuredly take him to the market. It would 100% be about the current window - meaning you have two superstars in Arenado and Goldy who are at the twilight/downside of their prime. It's about going all in with the talent you have. 

I said last week, but if people are thinking we're going out and getting guys like Montas or Castillo, it's probably not going to happen and IMO, rightfully so. The reported cost of these guys is sky high, so you're going to be grossly overpaying IMO.

I think if they did pull off Soto, you very might well be looking at Corbin plugging in as a starter to eat innings. Or if, they don't have Corbin in the deal, you're probably looking at us getting a BOR type starter like a Quintana, Kuhl, or maybe Syndergaard.

You also got to remember both the FO and Flaherty himself expect him to be back before the end of the year. It's likely out of the BP, but still that's a massive boost if it was just indeed a dead arm issue.   

Also, we just got to make the playoffs. When you get to the post-season, you don't have to have the (3) big horses in your rotation to make a deep run. We've seen BP's and how they're utilized are key in the post-season. We have one of the better BP's and hopefully some fresh arms to add. So I don't buy this team is incapable of making a run deep into post-season. Especially if you're adding that much to your offense potentially with Soto.  

[MOSteelers56]

I’d be ecstatic if we got a solid reliever and Thor/Quintana. I’d like Thor more than Quintana because he is solid and has upside, which can’t be said for Q. However, the Big Lebowski jokes might make up for the lack of upside. I agree with what you guys are saying about not really needing horses in the playoffs. We do absolutely need someone to help us get there. As of now, our pen is going to be gassed for the playoffs. We’re seeing it with Gio. I think if Yadi comes back and gives us something, we get a MOR guy, and a solid arm out of the pen, we’re a WS contender. I think Helsley could be a major weapon in the playoffs.