holt_bruce81 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 I'm really confused on why we released Rosenthal. But I'm sure I'm missing something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 22 minutes ago, holt_bruce81 said: I'm really confused on why we released Rosenthal. But I'm sure I'm missing something. I don't think it's any different than non-tendering him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 12 hours ago, CWood21 said: I don't think it's any different than non-tendering him. That's the way I'm looking at it too. Actually think they're doing him a favor by releasing him. Makes him a FA on day one... Might give us a good grace chance of re-negotiating a 2 year deal with him, where we eat year one and get him healthy for year two and maybe even a player option for year three... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Paul DeJong was voted as one of the three rookie of the year finalists by the BBWOA. Nice accolade for him, although he has not shot at winning it as it'll be Bellinger... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoinesh123 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Haven't posted on here in a while. I'm taking a gap year abroad and I don't have as much free time on my hands. Back to some Cardinals news. I'm very big on twitter and follow a ton of bloggers and writers. #Stanton2Stl has started trending among them. What do you think we would need to give up to get him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 8 hours ago, yoinesh123 said: Haven't posted on here in a while. I'm taking a gap year abroad and I don't have as much free time on my hands. Back to some Cardinals news. I'm very big on twitter and follow a ton of bloggers and writers. #Stanton2Stl has started trending among them. What do you think we would need to give up to get him? Hard question to answer as I think there are some moving parts to a deal: 1] How much salary would we be taking on? Would we take on the whole deal (in which case the prospects going to Miami would likely be significantly less) or is MIA going to eat a portion of the deal (which would mean we'd have to kick in better prospects). 2] Biggest hurdle IMO, is whether or not Stanton would waive his NTC. If not, all this is futile... Assuming he would waive his NTC and I'd think we'd ask the Marlins to eat a portion of the deal (likely between $15-30 million), here is my thought: -SP Jack Flaherty would be headliner IMO. - Their choice of one of our OF prospects (Sierra, Bader, O'Neill, Garcia, etc) Another pitching prospect (Hicks, Alcantara, Fernandez, Hudson, Seijas) Maybe a MLB throw-in like Diaz or Grichuk, or another mid tier prospect... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 9, 2017 Author Share Posted November 9, 2017 9 hours ago, yoinesh123 said: Haven't posted on here in a while. I'm taking a gap year abroad and I don't have as much free time on my hands. Back to some Cardinals news. I'm very big on twitter and follow a ton of bloggers and writers. #Stanton2Stl has started trending among them. What do you think we would need to give up to get him? Glad to see you venture over here. Hopefully you'll be able to talk more Cardinals baseball soon. Like @kgarrett12486 said, that NTC is the biggest hurdle to completing a Stanton deal. He's already made it known he doesn't really want to be part of a rebuild in Miami, and given their need to shed salary it seems that a divorce is inevitable. He's stated his preference to play on the coast, and the other two teams that are most linked to Stanton are Philadelphia and San Francisco. Philadelphia has at least another year of a rebuild, so that's probably not a much better situation for Stanton. And San Francisco prior to this year was an annual playoff contender, but they're financially short on wiggle room and their farm system is rather weak. They've got Christian Arroyo as their only notable prospect, and Tyler Beede is their "best" pitching prospect. Neither one of those teams really are obvious candidates to acquire Stanton. As for the package, it's probably largely dependent on how much (if any) money the Marlins are willing to kick in. If they're only kicking in $5M-$10M, then the Marlins package isn't going to be very strong. If they're kicking in closer to $50M, they're probably getting a pretty strong package back. I'm not sure if teams can make "conditional" cash trades, but if that's possible that could happen. To me, when we're talking about our "available" SP prospects Jack Flaherty seems like a prime candidate to be dealt this offseason. He was reportedly part of the Sonny Gray offer along with Stephen Piscotty, so it figures he'll be available again this year. And they showcased him down the stretch. Wouldn't surprise me if a deal came out of Flaherty, OF (Piscotty), and a lower-level arm for Stanton and some cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 31 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said: 1] How much salary would we be taking on? Would we take on the whole deal (in which case the prospects going to Miami would likely be significantly less) or is MIA going to eat a portion of the deal (which would mean we'd have to kick in better prospects) I think this ends up alittle differently than most of us are talking about right now. The next 3 seasons that Stanton us completely under contract, I think we end up taking on ALL of that money. ($77 million). Stanton is probably worth that, its when the salary jumps to over $30m AAV when it becomes tough to swallow. So its when we get into the questionable options that teams are not comfortable with, and since it was the Marlins who created this albatross deal, that is where their dollars come in. (pay for their mistake) I think we could get $45m from Miami, if Stanton were to Opt in for the final 7 years, which would bring his AAV down to just under $25m. 51 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said: 2] Biggest hurdle IMO, is whether or not Stanton would waive his NTC. If not, all this is futile... Anyone who has ever actually looked into this, knows it was a completely erroneous report. The actual quote was that the Marlins Front Office hasnt asked Stanton if he would waive his NTC for St. Louis. Never anything about Stanton not wanting to. Unless Stanton/Jeter/Some other Miami Front Office guy, actually comes out and says he wont come here, then its a bunch of nonsense. I think the deal looks something like Piscotty+Alcantara and another lower level prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 9, 2017 Author Share Posted November 9, 2017 59 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said: Assuming he would waive his NTC and I'd think we'd ask the Marlins to eat a portion of the deal (likely between $15-30 million), here is my thought: -SP Jack Flaherty would be headliner IMO. - Their choice of one of our OF prospects (Sierra, Bader, O'Neill, Garcia, etc) Another pitching prospect (Hicks, Alcantara, Fernandez, Hudson, Seijas) Maybe a MLB throw-in like Diaz or Grichuk, or another mid tier prospect... Don't think they're getting Flaherty and a second-tier arm in the same deal unless the Marlins are eating a good bit more money. And FWIW, I think Jordan Hicks is "untouchable" and probably not available in trades. Mo has raved about him, and I believe in one of the interviews he had they were talking about pitching prospects he went out of his way to talk about Jordan Hicks. Quite frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if they liked him more than Flaherty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: Anyone who has ever actually looked into this, knows it was a completely erroneous report. The actual quote was that the Marlins Front Office hasnt asked Stanton if he would waive his NTC for St. Louis. Never anything about Stanton not wanting to. Unless Stanton/Jeter/Some other Miami Front Office guy, actually comes out and says he wont come here, then its a bunch of nonsense. What report are we talking about? That's not what I'm referencing at all. I didn't even know there was a report out there saying he won't waive his NTC for STL. I'm talking the fact that he doesn't have to waive his NTC for anyone, not just STL. He really dictates if he wants to move on from Miami, which from all accounts he seems to love the city... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 7 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Don't think they're getting Flaherty and a second-tier arm in the same deal unless the Marlins are eating a good bit more money. And FWIW, I think Jordan Hicks is "untouchable" and probably not available in trades. Mo has raved about him, and I believe in one of the interviews he had they were talking about pitching prospects he went out of his way to talk about Jordan Hicks. Quite frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if they liked him more than Flaherty. Marlins know we need him, we know they need to shed payroll and he's the biggest potential chunk. I think it's probably going to take more than most think, but probably less than what I laid out (depending on the money exchanging hands)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Some rumor mills reports: Quote Jon Heyman of FanRag Sports writes that the Cardinals "are believed to be the team the Marlins would most like to make a deal with" in the Giancarlo Stanton sweepstakes. and... Quote ESPN's Jerry Crasnick reports that teams that have reached out to J.D. Martinez get the impression agent Scott Boras is looking for a deal in the $200 million range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 9, 2017 Author Share Posted November 9, 2017 Yeah...saw that J.D. Martinez' price tag, he's going to Boston IMO and it's going to be an overpay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 9, 2017 Author Share Posted November 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said: Marlins know we need him, we know they need to shed payroll and he's the biggest potential chunk. I think it's probably going to take more than most think, but probably less than what I laid out (depending on the money exchanging hands)... The money is just a huge variable in this whole thing. As I've mentioned, I don't see Alex Reyes or Luke Weaver available in a Stanton trade, and I'd venture to say that Jordan Hicks isn't available either. I think the package probably comes in somewhere between you and @StLunatic88's packages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 11 minutes ago, CWood21 said: The money is just a huge variable in this whole thing. As I've mentioned, I don't see Alex Reyes or Luke Weaver available in a Stanton trade, and I'd venture to say that Jordan Hicks isn't available either. I think the package probably comes in somewhere between you and @StLunatic88's packages. I mean were all really taking shots in the dark. Im just going off of what I see as a consensus deal form many I have seen thrown out there. But what really matters is that we are clearly active out there already. I think Mo wants to try and get this deal done before the winter meetings, and the reason in 2 fold. A) he wants to limit the teams/time the Marlins are talking with. Doesnt let some "mystery team" come out of left field with a desperate Top 50 prospect deal. B) I think he wants to know what ammo he has left to make some more deals at the meetings. I think we come out of this offseason with 2 bats and 2 arms (atleast 1 BP) in some sort of combo of Trades/Signings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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