big_palooka Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 Just now, NYRaider said: Williams was dominant throughout his college career in power conferences under a QB guru coach. We see raw guys with "intangibles" drafted highly all the time as well, for the most part they bust. Sam Darnold, Jake Locker, Will Levis, Christian Ponder, Daniel Jones, Mac Jones, etc. Some of that is largely dependent on where a QB goes. Like Mahomes, Lamar, Allen.... are these guys who they are if they went to QB poverty franchises like the Jets, Jaguars, Bears of the world? I'm genuinely curious is Williams can buck the trend. I'd rather be McCarthy landing in Minnesota than Williams in Chicago for example. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 25 minutes ago, NYRaider said: The pro JJ crowd has to use crazy advanced statistics to show that he's good, lol. Did he have good numbers at Michigan? No. But he was the best in the country at throwing on third down with 5-7 yards to go, scrambling left, at games that started at 10 AM. Dude is beating down the door for a guy who could only do well against good competition when they were cheating and can only make 60% of the types of throws needed to succeed in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 7 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Some of that is largely dependent on where a QB goes. Like Mahomes, Lamar, Allen.... are these guys who they are if they went to QB poverty franchises like the Jets, Jaguars, Bears of the world? I'm genuinely curious is Williams can buck the trend. I'd rather be McCarthy landing in Minnesota than Williams in Chicago for example. That is very true. Minnesota with KOC at HC and Jefferson/Addison/Hockenson is a young QB's dream landing spot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 2 hours ago, BobbyPhil1781 said: Dude is beating down the door for a guy who could only do well against good competition when they were cheating and can only make 60% of the types of throws needed to succeed in the league. Because I'm not simple and understand I am drafting a 21 year old to develop in my offense. How are you people not getting this? I'm don't like McCarthy for what he brings year 1, it's year 2 and beyond I'm interested. I'm drafting skills that translate, leadership and QB intelligence. If developed, I have a franchise QB. The anti-McCarthy crowd are hung up on what he didn't do as a 20 year old in a run heavy offense. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 2 hours ago, BobbyPhil1781 said: Dude is beating down the door for a guy who could only do well against good competition when they were cheating and can only make 60% of the types of throws needed to succeed in the league. Also, simply amazing to me that you can't through that Ohio State sized hole in your head that the scandal was defensive driven. It was them stealing offensive hand signals (which teams do to some degree throughout college football). It had nothing to do with helping the offense? Are you so daft you think Harbaugh needed to know the defense to play his power run game and dominate with his superior Oline? Laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 (edited) 2 hours ago, big_palooka said: Also, simply amazing to me that you can't through that Ohio State sized hole in your head that the scandal was defensive driven. It was them stealing offensive hand signals (which teams do to some degree throughout college football). It had nothing to do with helping the offense? Are you so daft you think Harbaugh needed to know the defense to play his power run game and dominate with his superior Oline? Laughable. Prove what you said. Once you prove it, I'll acknowledge being wrong. Opinions are not proof. Yes, you needed told that Edit: Here is the accusation since you seem lost "..... whether Michigan used unnamed individuals to attend games of both scheduled opponents and possible College Football Playoff opponents in an effort to gather information on the signs they use to call both offensive and defensive plays...." https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-ncaa-investigating-michigan-football-for-alleged-rule-violations-related-to-sign-stealing-161714176.html Now you claim you have more info than this guy on the subject so, again, prove it. Go ahead..... Edited March 9 by BobbyPhil1781 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 29 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Because I'm not simple and understand I am drafting a 21 year old to develop in my offense. How are you people not getting this? I'm don't like McCarthy for what he brings year 1, it's year 2 and beyond I'm interested. I'm drafting skills that translate, leadership and QB intelligence. If developed, I have a franchise QB. The anti-McCarthy crowd are hung up on what he didn't do as a 20 year old in a run heavy offense. False. I'm hung up on how average, at best, he looked when he played teams that they couldn't cheat against. TCU two years ago and after Stalions last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 5 hours ago, big_palooka said: Because I'm not simple and understand I am drafting a 21 year old to develop in my offense. How are you people not getting this? I'm don't like McCarthy for what he brings year 1, it's year 2 and beyond I'm interested. I'm drafting skills that translate, leadership and QB intelligence. If developed, I have a franchise QB. The anti-McCarthy crowd are hung up on what he didn't do as a 20 year old in a run heavy offense. “If the first thing out of your mouth when offering an ‘opinion’ on J.J. McCarthy is about him not being the focal point of their offensive approach at Michigan, you are telling on yourself and your inability, or unwillingness, to project future performance,” Riddick said. “If you actually studied him, you would see why many in the NFL are very optimistic about his potential.” McCarthy didn’t have to throw the ball 50 times since Michigan often had substantial leads due to a historically great defense. What should be evaluated is what McCarthy did with his opportunities. He was clutch when the ball was put in his hands. For example, 48.10 percent of McCarthy’s third-down pass attempts resulted in a first down, better than Caleb Williams (42.31) and Drake Maye (39.29) while narrowly trailing Jayden Daniels (48.21). Per AP writer Josh Dubow, McCarthy was dynamite on 3rd and 7+ yards last season, going 36-of-49 for 544 yards with six touchdowns, zero interceptions, and a 47.5% first-down rate. https://www.maizenbrew.com/2024/3/8/24094699/michigan-football-jj-mccarthy-nfl-draft-qb-rankings-williams-daniels-maye-espn-louis-riddick?fbclid=IwAR3IlaANgs8Cp3vaq_Z_HOmZL3V0uonYL91Opiok2lGlTIlUpxf8dOKATPI 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) 42 minutes ago, vike daddy said: “If the first thing out of your mouth when offering an ‘opinion’ on J.J. McCarthy is about him not being the focal point of their offensive approach at Michigan, you are telling on yourself and your inability, or unwillingness, to project future performance,” Riddick said. “If you actually studied him, you would see why many in the NFL are very optimistic about his potential.” McCarthy didn’t have to throw the ball 50 times since Michigan often had substantial leads due to a historically great defense. What should be evaluated is what McCarthy did with his opportunities. He was clutch when the ball was put in his hands. For example, 48.10 percent of McCarthy’s third-down pass attempts resulted in a first down, better than Caleb Williams (42.31) and Drake Maye (39.29) while narrowly trailing Jayden Daniels (48.21). Per AP writer Josh Dubow, McCarthy was dynamite on 3rd and 7+ yards last season, going 36-of-49 for 544 yards with six touchdowns, zero interceptions, and a 47.5% first-down rate. https://www.maizenbrew.com/2024/3/8/24094699/michigan-football-jj-mccarthy-nfl-draft-qb-rankings-williams-daniels-maye-espn-louis-riddick?fbclid=IwAR3IlaANgs8Cp3vaq_Z_HOmZL3V0uonYL91Opiok2lGlTIlUpxf8dOKATPI If you look at the stats after Conor was removed from the team, his numbers were substantially worse. Unfortunately, the team cheating casts doubt over the integrity of his numbers as they were solid when they were cheating and kinda **** when they got caught. Edit: For example, I posted his 3rd down stats that resulted in a first down after Conor was removed and they were less than 30% if I'm not mistaken. Regardless, they weren't near 48%, not even close. Context matters here Edited March 10 by BobbyPhil1781 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massraider Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 18 hours ago, BobbyPhil1781 said: can only make 60% of the types of throws needed to succeed in the league. I'm sorry, what? You believe 40% of the throws necessary in the NFL, he cannot make? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) 12 hours ago, BobbyPhil1781 said: If you look at the stats after Conor was removed from the team, his numbers were substantially worse. Unfortunately, the team cheating casts doubt over the integrity of his numbers as they were solid when they were cheating and kinda **** when they got caught. Edit: For example, I posted his 3rd down stats that resulted in a first down after Conor was removed and they were less than 30% if I'm not mistaken. Regardless, they weren't near 48%, not even close. Context matters here Context matters, but you continue to ignore it? Michigan finished the season with the hardest strength of schedule in the country. Michigan played Penn St. and Ohio St. who ranked 1st and 3rd in total defense. They played 5 ranked opponents en route to a championship. McCarthy injured an ankle against Penn St. and was noticeably not himself to end the regular season, hence the reduced volume. But that's all excuses right? It's just the Conner Stallions thing that counts as context? Edited March 10 by big_palooka 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 2 hours ago, massraider said: I'm sorry, what? You believe 40% of the throws necessary in the NFL, he cannot make? That's what the data suggests, yes. When throwing at the combine, he struggled with all of these same throws as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 42 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Context matters, but you continue to ignore it? Michigan finished the season with the hardest strength of schedule in the country. Michigan played Penn St. and Ohio St. who ranked 1st and 3rd in total defense. They played 5 ranked opponents en route to a championship. McCarthy injured an ankle against Penn St. and was noticeably not himself to end the regular season, hence the reduced volume. But that's all excuses right? It's just the Conner Stallions thing that counts as context? More excuses. Don't care. I want a QB who does well against good competition and doesn't look average, at best. But again, you're giving excuses as that is why he sucked. I'm saying it's the cheating. Feel free to prove your last claim, by the way. You know, where you said they didn't steal defensive signals even though I provided the article suggesting they stole both. Go ahead. Prove it or just say you're wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totty Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Mac going to the jags doesn't bode well for us moving to three to grab Jayden. 👀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 2 minutes ago, Totty said: Mac going to the jags doesn't bode well for us moving to three to grab Jayden. 👀 That's so random lol. Never would've guessed this would happen but yeah, they're going QB at 3, no question 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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