big_palooka Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 6 hours ago, NYRaider said: Mahomes passed for 5,000 yards / 41 TD plus rushed for 12 TD his final season in college. Herbert passed for 3,200 yards / 32 TD plus rushed for 4 TD in his final season in college. Stats are misleading in college due to the offenses and competition. Mason Rudolph put up similar stats to Mahomes. Dwayne Haskins had one of the most eye popping statistical seasons in football. Garner Minshew put up 4,800 yards at Wash St. Then Anthony Gordon took over the next year put up a ridiculous 5,800. Bailey Zappe went for 6,000 yards and 62 TDs. You can find stats any and everywhere in college. Guys who tore it up statistically. It's all about drafting traits and how they translate. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 6 hours ago, NYRaider said: While I love Williams game. That statement is very prisoner of the moment. The guy can throw it with at a variety of arm angels like Mahomes so he's the new "best in a generation" prospect. Luck and Lawrence were two of the most mechanically sound, mentally prepared passers since Manning. We've just moved beyond Manning being the standard of what a QB should look like and moved in the Mahomes era. To date, none of the "next Mahomes" prospects have amounted to anything. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 5 hours ago, Tank4Drake said: I know some loved Carr and thought he was a franchise QB but imo this team hasn’t had a homegrown franchise QB since Stabler. Never really been known for our QB’s. Bears have been worse, but were probably next to them. We need our guy. Our 12-16 year guy. A guy who is a Top 6 QB year in and year out. A truly elite QB that can make the playoffs almost every season he’s healthy, even if the roster is a little below average. It’s time. We all deserve it. Would be quite ironic if both the Bears and Raiders get Caleb and Maye. Probably the top two franchises that have struggled with QB identity throughout their history. I do want to give AOC a shot though. Anyone who thinks he sucks after one game is judging way too early. It was a rough game with the fumbles and redzone pick, but he showed a slinger mentality and moved the ball. I want to see him start at least 70% of our games. I don’t really care to see Jimmy anymore, unless we are in playoff contention around Week 12-13 and AOC is sucking You just going to ignore the Browns and Jets. They've not had star QBs since Kosar and Namath. I'm sure there are others but Vikings (Tarkenton), Washington (Theisman), Broncos (Elway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 1 hour ago, big_palooka said: While I love Williams game. That statement is very prisoner of the moment. The guy can throw it with at a variety of arm angels like Mahomes so he's the new "best in a generation" prospect. Luck and Lawrence were two of the most mechanically sound, mentally prepared passers since Manning. We've just moved beyond Manning being the standard of what a QB should look like and moved in the Mahomes era. To date, none of the "next Mahomes" prospects have amounted to anything. While I agree with this statement wholeheartedly, Caleb Williams is the best quarterback prospect in the draft, if he comes out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 46 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said: While I agree with this statement wholeheartedly, Caleb Williams is the best quarterback prospect in the draft, if he comes out Can't argue that. I want to see how he fairs against Notre Dame, Utah, Washington and Oregon. Even then, those schools are not big on defense. If he can get them into the playoff it would be great to see him against a top end defense. My only question on him is what happens when he's pressured regularly. I've not seen him in a muddy pocket with guys at his feet ever. The competition he's faced, he's got all day to read and toy around in space. I want to see him making throws on schedule from the pocket with defenders in his face. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 2 hours ago, big_palooka said: Can't argue that. I want to see how he fairs against Notre Dame, Utah, Washington and Oregon. Even then, those schools are not big on defense. If he can get them into the playoff it would be great to see him against a top end defense. My only question on him is what happens when he's pressured regularly. I've not seen him in a muddy pocket with guys at his feet ever. The competition he's faced, he's got all day to read and toy around in space. I want to see him making throws on schedule from the pocket with defenders in his face. True but the guy can move. I can see his problem being that because of his talent he's gonna try to force things that aren't there when he's under pressure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 12 hours ago, Tank4Drake said: I’m not hating on Caleb. If I had to rank the QB prospects since 2020 I’d have it Burrow, Lawrence, Tua, Maye, Caleb. How is that hating? Caleb blows any QB prospect from 2023 or 2022 out of the water, quite easily. I view both Caleb and Maye as generational talents. I just like Maye more… Weird that we've hit a point where not calling a prospect the absolute best ever is now "hating" isn't it? I have my concerns about Williams, you bring up some points, others bring up some varying points, but nobody has said he absolutely shouldn't be a top 5 pick or that he's a crap prospect that should go the UDFA route. On the Mahomes side discussion: It's the Mahomes effect. He showed up year 2 and never looked back amd now everyone seems to think he was a major cant-miss prospect. He wasn't. He was a QB with tools some people liked and others didn't particularly see much in. If he was the caliber of prospect some people now say he was in hindsight, he doesn't sit behind Alex Smith or fall to the Chiefs at all. Mahomes was a decent college QB that never reached his peak at TTU- and probably never had a snowball's chance in hell to with their talent and coaching. He was the ultimate case of looking at the taps and seeing what might be there in the right situation. But someone would have to bring signed, dated, and notarized proof that they had him as QB1 in his class before I'm believing them. Some Michigan fanboy somewhere probably had Tom Brady as QB1 too, so it's not impossible, but I'd need the definitive proof. ....... We're back to the old QB debate now and my stance remains the same- give me the QB that looks like a 1st rounder and isn't surrounded by a bunch of other 1st and 2nd rounders. Some people say particular schools (USC QBs, Ohio St QBs, etc). It's not the school- coaches and schemes change too often. It's not really even coaches or schemes unless they're overtly QB stat friendly. For me it's the circumstances- who do they play with and who do they play against. Great schools can have great QBs, so can bad schools. Great QBs can have great a great supporting cast or they could have garbage around them. If I'm looking at 2 QBs with similar skill levels, I look next to the circumstances that are highlighting those skills. Caleb Williams has been great at USC. He probably would have done fine at UNC as well. Drake Maye looks really good at UNC. But I have fewer doubts he would have looked excellent at USC than I have about Caleb looking all-world at UNC. We'll never know because they played where they played, but that's also the point of evaluating guys to start with. Matt Leinart won a national championship at USC and at the time there were very few real concerns about his prospects in the NFL (until he indeed flamed out) while Aaron Rodgers more or less floundered around at Cal. Anyone wanna bet USC doesn't win that natty with Rodgers at the helm? No doubt whatsoever he would've looked fantastic at USC. Leinart was still very good in his own right and probably would've still done fine enough at Cal, probably fine enough to still go 1st round himself. Is it hating on Leinart to say you liked Rodgers better? Is it hating on Rodgers to say you liked Leinart better? Revisionism and hindsight aside, nobody would take offense to a preference either which way. They were obviously in different classes, but there was some overlap in college play. I was a big Rodgers guy back then, but I'd be lying if I didn't think Leinart was going to be a star in the NFL for a decade +. If anyone could always be spot on about QBs 100% of the time and stars were as "duh, it's obvious" as people make it out to be, Madden would have like 20 QBs with a 99 rating each year lol. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 6 hours ago, big_palooka said: While I love Williams game. That statement is very prisoner of the moment. The guy can throw it with at a variety of arm angels like Mahomes so he's the new "best in a generation" prospect. Luck and Lawrence were two of the most mechanically sound, mentally prepared passers since Manning. We've just moved beyond Manning being the standard of what a QB should look like and moved in the Mahomes era. To date, none of the "next Mahomes" prospects have amounted to anything. Shoot, people are still rallying behind every sub 6'1 QB with some athketic talent and a mid round grade as the "next Wilson" and those haven't done many favors either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 2 hours ago, Jeremy408 said: True but the guy can move. I can see his problem being that because of his talent he's gonna try to force things that aren't there when he's under pressure A lot of guys can move. He does seem to anticipate well and have a great feel in the pocket which is what I want to see against better competition. He tends to hold onto the ball and leave the pocket quick at times because he can. I want to see him against a defense where he has to make quick decisions with the ball under duress. I'm clearly nit picking, but that's something I don't have an answer on right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydFan Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 I honestly just don’t think you can go wrong with either. If we have a top two pick it will suck getting there but I’m gonna be crazy hyped about it. Both feel can’t miss to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, big_palooka said: A lot of guys can move. He does seem to anticipate well and have a great feel in the pocket which is what I want to see against better competition. He tends to hold onto the ball and leave the pocket quick at times because he can. I want to see him against a defense where he has to make quick decisions with the ball under duress. I'm clearly nit picking, but that's something I don't have an answer on right now. How do I have a problem with that when it comes to quarterbacks. You kind of have to nitpick because otherwise it all looks the same and that's why you find these risers in the draft that turn out to not be very good. It's also how you end up taking Young over shroud because he's more exciting Edited October 6, 2023 by Jeremy408 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank4Drake Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 Caleb Williams said he’ll only come out next year for the Raiders, Giants, Cowboys, Vikings, or 49ers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted October 6, 2023 Author Share Posted October 6, 2023 I would sign Kenneth Murray from the Chargers. He is only 24, and this didn't pick up his 5th year option. He has played good for them. He could anchor the LB unit. sadly, there isn't many difference maker DT in free agency 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 1 hour ago, Tank4Drake said: Caleb Williams said he’ll only come out next year for the Raiders, Giants, Cowboys, Vikings, or 49ers. i see this everywhere, but ive not actually seen a clip of him saying it. is this 100% true? or rumored to like those 5 teams or something like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 2 hours ago, Tank4Drake said: Caleb Williams said he’ll only come out next year for the Raiders, Giants, Cowboys, Vikings, or 49ers. Where did you see that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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