NYRaider Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 4 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Bold. Maye is a step above to me. More polished, but on a mediocre team with little skill talent and Mac Brown is a bit of a dud. I think McCarthy is who Maye was a year ago. Another year of seasoning, he's a sure fire #1 overall prospect. If he comes out, you're getting him on a budget in the top 10. There's just something off with Maye for me, I think he is very good but maybe not as great as everyone makes him out to be. McCarthy seems to have a higher upside to me because of the arm talent and mobility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 4 hours ago, NYRaider said: I don't really see the value in having two journeymen level QB. I don't know that a second round quarterback is necessarily a journeyman. I don't look at where your draft that I look at can you make the necessary throws & can you make the necessary decisions for the offense needs to be successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted November 9, 2023 Author Share Posted November 9, 2023 54 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said: I don't know that a second round quarterback is necessarily a journeyman. I don't look at where your draft that I look at can you make the necessary throws & can you make the necessary decisions for the offense needs to be successful. this is Called one of the best QB classes in a long time. A 2nd round QB could be a stud. Smart to play off the strength of the draft for once. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 4 hours ago, NYRaider said: I liked Ewers a lot coming into the season but I'm meh on him now, I think he can definitely use another year of development. JJ McCarthy's tape has jumped out a lot more to me than his has this season. JJ may end up being the most realistic option where we end up picking. Which is either the end of the top 10 or somewhere before 15. I think he's a good option 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 10 hours ago, NYRaider said: There's just something off with Maye for me, I think he is very good but maybe not as great as everyone makes him out to be. McCarthy seems to have a higher upside to me because of the arm talent and mobility. This doesn't track for me. Maye has unreal arm strength. Mechanically, he's about as picture perfect as you can ask for in a QB from footwork to release. The ball explodes off his hand. He throws with expert timing and can put it anywhere on the field. He's also extremely mobile, can improvise and make any throw off structure. He's a 4.6 guy. To me, they are very similar, but Maye has taken that next step where McCarthy is a little less seasoned. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 6 hours ago, big_palooka said: This doesn't track for me. Maye has unreal arm strength. Mechanically, he's about as picture perfect as you can ask for in a QB from footwork to release. The ball explodes off his hand. He throws with expert timing and can put it anywhere on the field. He's also extremely mobile, can improvise and make any throw off structure. He's a 4.6 guy. To me, they are very similar, but Maye has taken that next step where McCarthy is a little less seasoned. I just think he's a little overrated especially with all of the Caleb hate that has been trending lately. I've been really impressed with the JJ McCarthy tape I've watched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 28 minutes ago, NYRaider said: I just think he's a little overrated especially with all of the Caleb hate that has been trending lately. I've been really impressed with the JJ McCarthy tape I've watched. So because Caleb hasn't lived up to the hype, Maye is overrated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 14 minutes ago, big_palooka said: So because Caleb hasn't lived up to the hype, Maye is overrated? No, I think Maye is being overrated because people have prospect fatigue with Caleb. Caleb is clearly the best prospect in the draft and will definitely be the first player off the board when the draft rolls around. Maye gets more of a pass because he's not overanalyzed due to no one giving a crap about UNC or ACC football in general. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 48 minutes ago, NYRaider said: No, I think Maye is being overrated because people have prospect fatigue with Caleb. Caleb is clearly the best prospect in the draft and will definitely be the first player off the board when the draft rolls around. Maye gets more of a pass because he's not overanalyzed due to no one giving a crap about UNC or ACC football in general. Marvin Harrison Jr. is the best overall prospect in this class. Maye is a better QB than Williams. More consistent in the pocket and in structure. Can read and make any throw with anticipation and touch. Has size, elite arm strength and athletic ability. Caleb is a great prospect who has a skillset that is valuable off structure. Not as good in the pocket. And there are some character things that may scare some teams. Both are worth of the #1 pick. The smart teams will take Maye. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 2 hours ago, big_palooka said: Marvin Harrison Jr. is the best overall prospect in this class. Maye is a better QB than Williams. More consistent in the pocket and in structure. Can read and make any throw with anticipation and touch. Has size, elite arm strength and athletic ability. Caleb is a great prospect who has a skillset that is valuable off structure. Not as good in the pocket. And there are some character things that may scare some teams. Both are worth of the #1 pick. The smart teams will take Maye. I disagree with that. MHJ is obviously a great prospect in his own right but a franchise QB is significantly more valuable than an elite #1 WR. The only time we've really seen the dominant WR's win at the highest level (Super Bowls) has really been when they're paired with a superstar QB. I mean Maye hasn't exactly light it up against a Charmin soft schedule in the ACC and doesn't have nearly as much attention on him. Anything Caleb does, good or bad, is put under a huge microscope. Coming out of college all of the same things were said about Patrick Mahomes. He had a ton of bad habits, wasn't great in the pocket, played in a spread system, and lacked in a lot of the fundamental areas. That's what ultimately led to another UNC QB being the first QB off the board ahead of him and we all know how that turned out. Pocket passers are great but there's a reason guys like Allen and Mahomes are considered the best in the league, their ability to extend plays, create out of structure, and god tier arms. All three things that Caleb excels with, coach him up and he has the potential to be the best QB in the league. I don't see that same type of potential with Maye. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: I disagree with that. MHJ is obviously a great prospect in his own right but a franchise QB is significantly more valuable than an elite #1 WR. The only time we've really seen the dominant WR's win at the highest level (Super Bowls) has really been when they're paired with a superstar QB. I mean Maye hasn't exactly light it up against a Charmin soft schedule in the ACC and doesn't have nearly as much attention on him. Anything Caleb does, good or bad, is put under a huge microscope. Coming out of college all of the same things were said about Patrick Mahomes. He had a ton of bad habits, wasn't great in the pocket, played in a spread system, and lacked in a lot of the fundamental areas. That's what ultimately led to another UNC QB being the first QB off the board ahead of him and we all know how that turned out. Pocket passers are great but there's a reason guys like Allen and Mahomes are considered the best in the league, their ability to extend plays, create out of structure, and god tier arms. All three things that Caleb excels with, coach him up and he has the potential to be the best QB in the league. I don't see that same type of potential with Maye. Ah.... there it is. Thanks for clarifying. You think Caleb Williams is "the next Mahomes" (he's not) and Maye another Trubisky. If we're just helmet scouting, better not look up the recent trend of USC QBs. Maye is an elite athlete who makes plays outside the pocket and creates out of structure so that argument is invalid. Basically he can do what Williams does outside structure, but doesn't have to rely on it because he can win from the pocket consistently. And Mahomes at this stage is a pocket passer who just happens to make plays out of structure when needed. His best games are from the pocket reading and delivering the ball. That is where Williams needs to grow and where Maye is already matured. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Basically he can do what Williams does outside structure, but doesn't have to rely on it because he can win from the pocket consistently. I don't think he's close to the creator out of structure that Williams currently is. As it stands I'd compare McCarthy to Burrow w/more mobility, Williams to a Mahomes/Kyler hybrid, and Maye to Herbert. Edited November 9, 2023 by NYRaider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totty Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 6 hours ago, NYRaider said: I don't think he's close to the creator out of structure that Williams currently is. As it stands I'd compare McCarthy to Burrow w/more mobility, Williams to a Mahomes/Kyler hybrid, and Maye to Herbert. Just based on this post I am taking Maye over all others. Burrow/McCarthy is enticing. Mahomes is on pace to be the best ever when he is done, but to add Kyler to the Mahomes comparison completely turns me off. Kyler is poop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 So are we now just gonna compare every semi mobile QB who runs around and makes plays against lesser competition to Patrick Mahomes? The "play creator" fetish is unreal. It's like people just forget the slew of guys who "create outside the pocket with mobility" that flopped miserably in the NFL. Better yet, why don't we compare them to Jalen Hurts as a prospect? Is it because he wasn't universally considered a 1st rounder? So much hyperbole. With Williams in particular, I really really really don't get it. We're basically not allowed to question his actions. We're expected to excuse all shortcomings by sheer default. Where's the criticism of him playing in a QB friendly system? Why all the excuses for the guy? Because he had a good year one year that led to a Heisman? Troy Smith, anyone? Lol. I honestly wonder how many people really, truly believe he's genuinely worth the first overall pick at this point. Yes, he's probably going 1st overall. I'm not debating that. But how many people follow up a critique of him or a statement that Maye is better with "but Williams is still worthy of the top pick" actually mean that, and how many are just saying it to keep peace and go with the flow? I'm just gonna put it out there right now- I don't think he's worth a 1st rounder at all and wouldn't take him if I were one of the 32 people deciding on who to take. I think he's more likely a bust and wouldn't take him until a day 3 flyer for a project QB. I know he'll go before some other guys- so did RG3, Jake Locker, Mitch Trubisky, Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins, Kyler of Duty, Justin Fields, and Bryce Young. And like them, I don't think Caleb Williams has much of an NFL future. Saying it now so I can eat crow if needed or not be accused of bandwagoning when he flops. I refuse to buy the hype. I'll breathe a sigh of relief when he's off the board to someone else and we'll revisit in 2027 or 2028 when his team is looking for their QBOTF again. Shame we won't get Maye, but McCarthy, Penix, Nix, or Pratt would be a fine consolation prize, imo. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 Williams and Maye are getting over analyzed. Both will be good QBs if they don’t get thrust into a Panthers type situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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