GSUeagles14 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 19 minutes ago, mission27 said: Because 3 of the 4 teams on Stanton's list had basically no interest in taking on his contract from what we've heard. So it was either gift Stanton to the Yankees, or try to get him to agree to a better trade to the Giants / Cardinals and then ultimately gift him to the Yankees. The Marlins made the right call. Stanton can bust on them now but who cares? Tbh the deal the deal they got was not that bad. They were put into a no-win situation because the media and others seriously overestimated Stanton's trade value, with that contract. I said this a month ago when people were speculating the Sox might trade Devers or Benetendi for Stanton AND take on his contract. That was always ridiculous. He passed through waivers last year without a claim. The Marlins were going to get salary relief and meh prospects or less salary relief and better prospects. In this particular case they got to unload almost the entire contract and picked up a guy who is probably a top-100 prospect, throws 100 mph, and has ace upside. That's not horrible. What is surprising is that a team like Boston wasn't willing to pull the trigger on a similar deal but again maybe Stanton didn't want to go there. you left out the second part of my thoughts on that, they couldnt get stanton to agree to the trades. the communication was awful, that conversatiom has to be had before hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 hour ago, GSUeagles14 said: you left out the second part of my thoughts on that, they couldnt get stanton to agree to the trades. the communication was awful, that conversatiom has to be had before hand. They had no leverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 13 minutes ago, mission27 said: They had no leverage. so why agree to trades before stanton okayed them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said: so why agree to trades before stanton okayed them? Because they were ok with the terms of the agreement and wanted to give those teams a chance to woo Stanton. It didn't work out but it was worth a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 15 minutes ago, mission27 said: Because they were ok with the terms of the agreement and wanted to give those teams a chance to woo Stanton. It didn't work out but it was worth a shot. not buying it at all, especially since the marlins themselves tried to strong arm him into accepting the trade. just bad business, let him know ahead of time and then figure out a plan from there. very much seems like they winged it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said: not buying it at all, especially since the marlins themselves tried to strong arm him into accepting the trade. just bad business, let him know ahead of time and then figure out a plan from there. very much seems like they winged it. Not sure what you mean by 'let him know ahead of time.' These things don't happen in a vacuum. I'm sure the Marlins were in contact with a dozen different team and with Stanton's agent on an hourly basis. I'm sure his team was being apprised of the situation at the same time the Giants and Cards were. Everyone went into this with eyes wide open. We are talking about a bunch of millionaires and professionals. The Cardinals and Giants knew they'd have to sway Stanton and were ready with a sales pitch. Stanton agreed to take the meetings so he couldn't have been that surprised. Ultimately he had his heart set on the Yankees or Dodgers, but it was worth a shot at a better deal for the Marlins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 This is not bilateral. They needed an agreement between three parties: 1. The Marlins 2. Giancarlo Stanton 3. Some other team The Marlins had to talk to those other teams and keep Stanton updated at the same time. They couldn't just come up with a plan based on what Stanton wanted and then go for it, because they needed to know which teams were interested, what they were willing to offer, then decide if those offers made sense to them. And to do that they needed to also talk to those teams first. Giancarlo is a big boy. Its not bad business to try to convince him to waive his NTC if you have a good offer to a team that's not on his list. Teams do that all the time. He had the right to say no but why not try to convince him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 9 minutes ago, mission27 said: This is not bilateral. They needed an agreement between three parties: 1. The Marlins 2. Giancarlo Stanton 3. Some other team The Marlins had to talk to those other teams and keep Stanton updated at the same time. They couldn't just come up with a plan based on what Stanton wanted and then go for it, because they needed to know which teams were interested, what they were willing to offer, then decide if those offers made sense to them. And to do that they needed to also talk to those teams first. Giancarlo is a big boy. Its not bad business to try to convince him to waive his NTC if you have a good offer to a team that's not on his list. Teams do that all the time. He had the right to say no but why not try to convince him? is there anything pointing to the marlins keeping up to that level of communication? Everything ive read says stanton gave them a list, marlins negotiated deals with san fran and stl and then said oh btw, weve got deals with these guys. could you show me something saying otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Just now, GSUeagles14 said: is there anything pointing to the marlins keeping up to that level of communication? Everything ive read says stanton gave them a list, marlins negotiated deals with san fran and stl and then said oh btw, weve got deals with these guys. could you show me something saying otherwise? Common sense. People talk to each other especially when there are millions of dollars at steaks and the people involved are baseball executives and agents glued to their blackberries. This was the Marlins #1 and only priority over the past 3 weeks, same with the Cards, same with the Giants, and obviously the same with Giancarlo and his agent. There is no way these people weren't calling each other every 5 minutes looking for an update or to advance talks. That's just how the world works. Baseball executives are like any other executives, they work all day and spend about 20 hours a day on the phone. Not to mention the Marlins had no incentive not to play nice with Stanton. They weren't going to cave immediately to his demand to go to a particular team but I'm sure they picked up the phone when he or his agent called and kept him in the loop. It obviously worked, because he agreed to meet with the Giants and Cardinals and hear them out. Ultimately he decided he'd rather go to one of his preferred teams. Who knows if the Marlins did a good or bad job managing this situation. I'm just saying the fact that they reached out to teams that were not on Giancarlo's list just means they were doing their jobs and the fact that he didn't budge is not something they could've necessarily controlled. They were in a bad spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Just now, mission27 said: Common sense. People talk to each other especially when there are millions of dollars at steaks and the people involved are baseball executives and agents glued to their blackberries. This was the Marlins #1 and only priority over the past 3 weeks, same with the Cards, same with the Giants, and obviously the same with Giancarlo and his agent. There is no way these people weren't calling each other every 5 minutes looking for an update or to advance talks. That's just how the world works. Baseball executives are like any other executives, they work all day and spend about 20 hours a day on the phone. Not to mention the Marlins had no incentive not to play nice with Stanton. They weren't going to cave immediately to his demand to go to a particular team but I'm sure they picked up the phone when he or his agent called and kept him in the loop. It obviously worked, because he agreed to meet with the Giants and Cardinals and hear them out. Ultimately he decided he'd rather go to one of his preferred teams. Who knows if the Marlins did a good or bad job managing this situation. I'm just saying the fact that they reached out to teams that were not on Giancarlo's list just means they were doing their jobs and the fact that he didn't budge is not something they could've necessarily controlled. They were in a bad spot. do you think its common sense to know that its extremely poor form to fire people recovering on hospital beds? is it common sense not to take a personal salary while trying to cut company costs and firing employees to do so? weird thing about common sense... not everyone has it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Just now, GSUeagles14 said: do you think its common sense to know that its extremely poor form to fire people recovering on hospital beds? is it common sense not to take a personal salary while trying to cut company costs and firing employees to do so? weird thing about common sense... not everyone has it. Come on, this isn't little league. This is a business. They bought the team and they have a right to clean house and pay themselves whatever they want. That doesn't mean they don't answer their phones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, mission27 said: Come on, this isn't little league. This is a business. They bought the team and they have a right to clean house and pay themselves whatever they want. That doesn't mean they don't answer their phones. that wasnt the question, were those things common sense? im pretty sure theres only one right/honest answer here. so youre arguing they arent displaying common sense in some areas but are in others. why is it wrong to assume that they feel stanton is there employee and they shouldnt be taking directive from him. Theyll negotiate with who they want to and let him know when theyre ready to let him know. That seems to be the approach theyre taking in other aspects of business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 12 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said: that wasnt the question, were those things common sense? im pretty sure theres only one right/honest answer here. so youre arguing they arent displaying common sense in some areas but are in others. why is it wrong to assume that they feel stanton is there employee and they shouldnt be taking directive from him. Theyll negotiate with who they want to and let him know when theyre ready to let him know. That seems to be the approach theyre taking in other aspects of business. Not sure what firing Mr. Marlin or employees being paid a salary has to do with Giancarlo Stanton but I will say I'm fully in favor of both. I only wish there was more than one Jeff Conine to get the ax. You obviously misunderstood what I meant by 'common sense.' Not that the Marlins have any ... they may or they may not, who knows ... but that it is common sense that even an incompetent buffoon, while in the middle of negotiating a $300 million deal, would probably be in pretty active daily talks with the major parties involved and answer their phone. Seriously, what do you think these people do all day? People who run baseball teams any business spend all day, every day, on the phone talking to people they are trying to do business with. That is their job. In no way am I arguing that the Marlins communicated with Stanton, or should have, because its the right/decent thing to do. That would be a fair point but that's not my point. My point is they probably communicated actively with the parties involved because a) it is the ONLY way any transactions ever gets done, period, end of story; b) it was absolutely in their best interests to make sure a transaction got done, which it did; and c) when you are dealing with organizations this large with probably dozens of people involved in every major decision, all of whom have extensive professional networks, there is literally no way to stop people from talking to each other. I have no idea if the Marlins did a good job communicating with everyone involved here but they were absolutely in active contact with Stanton and his agent, reached out to a bunch of teams, evaluated offers, set up follow up meetings between those teams and Stanton, and ultimately selected the best deal for their franchise that Stanton was willing to accept. Seems like the right process to me tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Tbh all the upset feelings over the M&M boys getting canned is so weird. They were not part of the new regime and so they are gone. Big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted December 12, 2017 Author Share Posted December 12, 2017 7 hours ago, mission27 said: This is not bilateral. They needed an agreement between three parties: 1. The Marlins 2. Giancarlo Stanton 3. Some other team The Marlins had to talk to those other teams and keep Stanton updated at the same time. They couldn't just come up with a plan based on what Stanton wanted and then go for it, because they needed to know which teams were interested, what they were willing to offer, then decide if those offers made sense to them. And to do that they needed to also talk to those teams first. Giancarlo is a big boy. Its not bad business to try to convince him to waive his NTC if you have a good offer to a team that's not on his list. Teams do that all the time. He had the right to say no but why not try to convince him? And having more bidders gives the Marlins extra leverage, or at least the appearance of it. It's like selling a house. You will get offers from people who can comfortably afford it, who are stretching it a little, and who can't afford it. You listen to everyone, let the bank give the okay, and in the meantime you aren't lying to any buyer when you say "I've got 3 offers on my house right now" even if 2 of them aren't likely to get approved for a mortgage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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