vegas492 Posted June 12, 2023 Author Share Posted June 12, 2023 42 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: Is Tyler Davis really that bad? And no, I am not proclaiming that Davis is some kind of sleeping dragon or anything. I mean, can he play STs, and eat some snaps at a near enough neutral level while the young TEs get their bearings? Yes. He doesn't have near the athletic ability that these two kids have. If we still had Rodgers, or an established vet under center, maybe I could be convinced to give game reps to Davis, as he should know the pro game better than the rookies. But...we don't. We have a first year QB. Let's let him grow with the kids who can be here long term with him. My guess is that we will outsmart ourselves (aka Jake Hanson) and play Davis some, but hopefully we learned from that mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 I swear people think it's 1995 with how long they think it takes for rookies to acclimate. It's 2023. They're combining for over 1000 yards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 1 hour ago, vegas492 said: Yes. He doesn't have near the athletic ability that these two kids have. If we still had Rodgers, or an established vet under center, maybe I could be convinced to give game reps to Davis, as he should know the pro game better than the rookies. But...we don't. We have a first year QB. Let's let him grow with the kids who can be here long term with him. My guess is that we will outsmart ourselves (aka Jake Hanson) and play Davis some, but hopefully we learned from that mistake. Weren't they trying Hanson at guard, when he is clearly a center only? Also, Davis did play on 64% of STs snaps in 2021, and 81% in 2022. I still think he is a final 2 or 3 guy on my roster, if I were to make any predictions this early. He played in 16% of offensive snaps last season. Keep him around for STs and a bit more PT while the rookies truly get their bearings, then phase him mostly out of the offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 15 minutes ago, Sandy said: I swear people think it's 1995 with how long they think it takes for rookies to acclimate. It's 2023. They're combining for over 1000 yards. 3 to 5 weeks into the season, barring no injury setbacks is all I am looking for. They won't be finished products for a couple of seasons most likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 4 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: 3 to 5 weeks into the season, barring no injury setbacks is all I am looking for. They won't be finished products for a couple of seasons most likely. Watson and Doubs both played a lot in the opener last year. I expect same from Musgrave and Kraft. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 4 minutes ago, Old Guy said: Watson and Doubs both played a lot in the opener last year. I expect same from Musgrave and Kraft. Exactly. There might be some growing pains but they'll be TE1 and TE2 week one (barring injury). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted June 12, 2023 Author Share Posted June 12, 2023 57 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: Weren't they trying Hanson at guard, when he is clearly a center only? Also, Davis did play on 64% of STs snaps in 2021, and 81% in 2022. I still think he is a final 2 or 3 guy on my roster, if I were to make any predictions this early. He played in 16% of offensive snaps last season. Keep him around for STs and a bit more PT while the rookies truly get their bearings, then phase him mostly out of the offense. I think he was played at guard. Which shows you again how, uh, not smart, our coaches can be at times. Davis. He's so forgettable, that I couldn't tell you what his name was without quoting you. Since we have darned few TE's on the roster and none with real experience, yah, he makes the team. Let's just keep him out of the offense. Specials? Sounds good. Have at it. Injury TE? Sure, have at it. But let's make sure that our offense this year includes guys who should be here long term and growing with Love. Unless he (presumably Davis?) has taken a few enormous steps forward, that should be Musgrave and Kraft. To me, there is no waiting for rookies to "get their bearings". Our QB won't have his bearings for a while. It takes reps. Let's have them take those reps together. We have nothing to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted June 12, 2023 Author Share Posted June 12, 2023 55 minutes ago, Old Guy said: Watson and Doubs both played a lot in the opener last year. I expect same from Musgrave and Kraft. Who was ahead of them on the roster again? Seasoned vets in Watkins and Cobb, right? Who is ahead of Musgrave and Kraft on the TE depth chart? Just some JAG whose name I can't even remember. (Deguara is an H-back, he's not a TE.) Yeah, they gotta get snaps and they gotta get them right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 31 minutes ago, vegas492 said: To me, there is no waiting for rookies to "get their bearings". Our QB won't have his bearings for a while. It takes reps. Let's have them take those reps together. We have nothing to lose. You say that now, but what if Musgrave doesn't have the blocking assignments down, and Love gets jacked? Again, Davis is not a superstar. Get everyone into their specific role. Anyway, I am done carrying water for Tyler Davis. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Old Guy said: Watson and Doubs both played a lot in the opener last year. I expect same from Musgrave and Kraft. I'm not sure Watson caught a pass from Rodgers >5 yards beyond the LOS until November. (He did get one from Love week-1 in garbage time.) Mostly just reverses, jet-sweep touches, and screens until November. Watson was injured for most of camp, though; so his limited early usage as a receiver may be irrelevant to Musgrave/Kraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 20 minutes ago, craig said: I'm not sure Watson caught a pass from Rodgers >5 yards beyond the LOS until November. (He did get one from Love week-1 in garbage time.) Mostly just reverses, jet-sweep touches, and screens until November. Watson was injured for most of camp, though; so his limited early usage as a receiver may be irrelevant to Musgrave/Kraft. The first offensive play of the season was a designed throw to Watson. Pretty obvious he was going to be a major part of our offense had he not dropped that pass. The look Rodgers gave to the sidelines after he dropped it was a death stare. Kind of a, "I ******* told you I don't throw to rookies, and now you see why!" That's pretty much why Watson was relegated to short throws until Lord Rodgers decided it was OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 Old, that was a no-nuance fly pattern designed to catch Vikes by surprise. Watson didn't need to make any moves or decisions; just run straight and fast and catch it. You blame delayed involvement of watson on "Lord Rodgers". But I suspect MLF didn't call >5-yard targets for Watson for a while because he didn't know how to run many routes. If Musgrave and Reed have full and healthy camps, route-mastery should come more quickly for them. But even without Rodgers to blame, Musgrave and Reed may take some time to master routes, and MLF may take some time to trust them with many targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted June 13, 2023 Author Share Posted June 13, 2023 19 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said: You say that now, but what if Musgrave doesn't have the blocking assignments down, and Love gets jacked? Again, Davis is not a superstar. Get everyone into their specific role. Anyway, I am done carrying water for Tyler Davis. If Love gets jacked because a TE can't do his job, then I'll blame coaches. Musgrave and Kraft have more physical ability than Davis. Now we gotta coach the kids up and keep things simple for them for a while. If we really wanted a blocking TE, we could bring back Lewis or we could have drafted a more blocking TE in the draft. And who knows, maybe they view one of the kids as a "blocker". That's why this is so interesting to me. Clean slate. Good prospects. Unlike Jace, these kids both look to have NFL bodies already. And we know they will look even better next year at this time after having an NFL strength and training program under their belts. This is the first time in a long time that I've actually been excited for our TE room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, vegas492 said: If Love gets jacked because a TE can't do his job, then I'll blame coaches. Musgrave and Kraft have more physical ability than Davis. Now we gotta coach the kids up and keep things simple for them for a while. If we really wanted a blocking TE, we could bring back Lewis or we could have drafted a more blocking TE in the draft. And who knows, maybe they view one of the kids as a "blocker". That's why this is so interesting to me. Clean slate. Good prospects. Unlike Jace, these kids both look to have NFL bodies already. And we know they will look even better next year at this time after having an NFL strength and training program under their belts. This is the first time in a long time that I've actually been excited for our TE room. I think Kraft is going to end up more of a blocker. He is a tank. And I imagine when he gets receptions he is going to be a bowling ball. In my mind, Musgrave is a better version of Tonyan. I think Davis can be about the same as Tom Crabtree. I also think that Deguara kind of plays his own position. And if I could compare him to anyone that I can remember, it is probably Jim Kleinsasser. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted June 13, 2023 Author Share Posted June 13, 2023 18 hours ago, Old Guy said: The first offensive play of the season was a designed throw to Watson. Pretty obvious he was going to be a major part of our offense had he not dropped that pass. The look Rodgers gave to the sidelines after he dropped it was a death stare. Kind of a, "I ******* told you I don't throw to rookies, and now you see why!" That's pretty much why Watson was relegated to short throws until Lord Rodgers decided it was OK. No doubt what you posted is correct. I also feel like they didn't want to throw too much at Watson too quick. But they wanted the ball in his hands to try to give him some confidence. Any confidence he had going into the season was wiped out with that drop. He needed those easy ones to get going. Kid bounced back nicely, though. I still think Doubs is going to have more targets and more catches than Watson this year. But Watson will have more "chunk" plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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