Let's talk rookie TE's in the NFL.....

[vegas492]

Just now, ThatJerkDave said:

I think Kraft is going to end up more of a blocker.  He is a tank.  And I imagine when he gets receptions he is going to be a bowling ball.  In my mind, Musgrave is a better version of Tonyan.  I think Davis can be about the same as Tom Crabtree.  I also think that Deguara kind of plays his own position.  And if I could compare him to anyone that I can remember, it is probably Jim Kleinsasser.  

I've long wondered if they could simply flip Deguara to more of a true TE role and then just draft another H-back or Fullback for the offense.  I think he's criminally underused.  As in, I think there's more talent there than what we are seeing.  Maybe Love gets him more opportunities this year.

But this is just me being overly optimistic right now.

[ThatJerkDave]

Watson had that clean-up surgery on his knee and missed most of the physical work in practice.  Then he got dinged up again in like week 3? and missed a few games.  He was well behind in terms of his reps, so they had to keep it simple for him.  

If you all recall, I was also huge on Romeo Doubs.  I have no idea how he lasted to the 4th round.  It didn't make sense to me then, and it doesn't make sense to me now.  He is going to be a big part of our offense, and has built a pretty good report with Jordan Love. 

[Mdpackfan22]

I'm beyond hyped we're finally investing in the TE position and should be featured significantly more with Love under center. 2 TE sets with Jones in the back field and Watson/Doubs split out wide will be deadly. We are finally being built to play football in January.

[ThatJerkDave]

6 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I've long wondered if they could simply flip Deguara to more of a true TE role and then just draft another H-back or Fullback for the offense.  I think he's criminally underused.  As in, I think there's more talent there than what we are seeing.  Maybe Love gets him more opportunities this year.

But this is just me being overly optimistic right now.

I think part of the issue is Deguara's size.  He is listed at 6'2.  Our other TEs are all 6'4 or taller.  And the typical modern TE is a 6'5ish guy.  I am not sure that he has the reach to do all of the classic TE stuff.  But if you can get him moving around, he is more likely to create some kind of match-up issue.  He is probably still a little too stout for most defensive backs and too nimble for most LBs.  I am skeptical that he is large enough or strong enough to block like a classic TE, or even be a get in the way guy like J-Mike or Jimmy Graham.  

[Old Guy]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

No doubt what you posted is correct.

I also feel like they didn't want to throw too much at Watson too quick.  But they wanted the ball in his hands to try to give him some confidence.  Any confidence he had going into the season was wiped out with that drop.  He needed those easy ones to get going.

Kid bounced back nicely, though.  

I still think Doubs is going to have more targets and more catches than Watson this year.  But Watson will have more "chunk" plays.

This! Doubs is going to have a major breakout year if he stays healthy all year. Dude was a steal in last year's draft. 

[Refugee]

2 hours ago, vegas492 said:

I've long wondered if they could simply flip Deguara to more of a true TE role and then just draft another H-back or Fullback for the offense.  I think he's criminally underused.  As in, I think there's more talent there than what we are seeing.  Maybe Love gets him more opportunities this year.

But this is just me being overly optimistic right now.

Paging Henry Pearson….  
 

I have no idea if he will stick but I will never not root for a FB to make the roster. One day when the pendulum swings back to power running game with all of these “hybrid” defenders getting put in the meat grinder, I’ll get my wish. 

[craig]

Doubs has such a great opportunity, really important guy.  Important health-wise, too.  Gute mostly talked about Toure's aptitude for slot, and slot is Reed's primary focus.  Obviously they cross-train, so both will have some capacity to play wide.  But it would be very helpful if both Watson and Doubs both stayed healthy and were able to dominate the wide snaps.  If either gets hurt, that would be a bummer.  

[Refugee]

32 minutes ago, craig said:

Doubs has such a great opportunity, really important guy.  Important health-wise, too.  Gute mostly talked about Toure's aptitude for slot, and slot is Reed's primary focus.  Obviously they cross-train, so both will have some capacity to play wide.  But it would be very helpful if both Watson and Doubs both stayed healthy and were able to dominate the wide snaps.  If either gets hurt, that would be a bummer.  

Watson could be a huge homerun threat for us and might take a big step in the details and timing of the game and hopefully his hands on the longshots his year. He does strike me as a bit of a Ferrari, incredible machine that tends to be in the shop quite a bit. I hope he surprises me and has some 4x4 to his game. 

[Uffdaswede]

26 minutes ago, Refugee said:

Paging Henry Pearson….  
 

I have no idea if he will stick but I will never not root for a FB to make the roster. One day when the pendulum swings back to power running game with all of these “hybrid” defenders getting put in the meat grinder, I’ll get my wish. 

I remember AG20 having something to say about fullbacks. Something about his having no use for a player that was never as good at running as the RBs, and not as good at catching as the receivers, and not as good at blocking as the OL.

 I thought there was some talk that Deguara was supposed to be MLF’s Kyle Juszczyk. He does seem to have some utility, but he’s sort of neither fish nor fowl nor Juszczyk. It’s strange, in a way, for the team to have given such a big commitment—draftwise— to a position that they have not valued much on game day.

What I really hope to see is MLF showing that his offense, an offense that no longer runs through AR12’s filter, is capable of tempo and coordination and a good run/pass balance that makes use of multiple skill positions. 

[craig]

2 hours ago, vegas492 said:

I've long wondered if they could simply flip Deguara to more of a true TE role ...  I think he's criminally underused.  As in, I think there's more talent there than what we are seeing.  Maybe Love gets him more opportunities this year...

Heh heh, now's the time to be more optimistic!  . We'll see, who knows. 

Certainly this is an opportunity year for him, as the TE senior citizen; it's been a while since his injuries; he and Love have practiced together a lot, could have sync; modest competition for H-Back snaps; and Kraft-Mus are rookies.  Experience-based window-of-opportunity is massive.  

My perception is that he's become a pretty reliable, skilled blocker at the blocks he's been asked to make, even if those are usually H-back movement stuff.  But seems to me that he's gotten pretty stocky.  He's not as long as Musgrave; but I'm guessing for in-line blocking he'd probably be able to get in the way and be as trustworthy, if called upon for that.  

Interesting that Deguara's snaps went down quite a bit last year.  By over 100 snaps.   2021  33%, 367.  2022 258 snaps, 23.6%.   

• Was he hurt at all, or just MLF's package preference? 
• Maybe he got some of Tonyan's snaps in 2021 that went back to Bobby last year? 
• Maybe with the OL struggles, Deguara just wasn't a guy MLF wanted to use for OL help?   
• Who knows what MLF will do now. 
• My hope, of course, is that OL is healthy and better, with less TE-help required? 
• But my perception is that Deguara was used pretty exclusively as a blocker, and was maybe never among the first 4 targets on any pass designs. 

[Refugee]

2 minutes ago, Uffdaswede said:

I remember AG20 having something to say about fullbacks. Something about his having no use for a player that was never as good at running as the RBs, and not as good at catching as the receivers, and not as good at blocking as the OL.

 I thought there was some talk that Deguara was supposed to be MLF’s Kyle Juszczyk. He does seem to have some utility, but he’s sort of neither fish nor fowl nor Juszczyk. It’s strange, in a way, for the team to have given such a big commitment—draftwise— to a position that they have not valued much on game day.

What I really hope to see is MLF showing that his offense, an offense that no longer runs through AR12’s filter, is capable of tempo and coordination and a good run/pass balance that makes use of multiple skill positions. 

I also am pretty eager to give MLF and his offense an honest evaluation. He won’t have a HOF QB who has seen it all, but there will be just one chef in the kitchen on gamedays and I want to see what he cooks up. 

[craig]

2 minutes ago, Refugee said:

I also am pretty eager to give MLF and his offense an honest evaluation. He won’t have a HOF QB who has seen it all, but there will be just one chef in the kitchen on gamedays and I want to see what he cooks up. 

I'm not confident it will taste that good?  I'm usually an optimist, and I know the board typically has envisioned MLF as a good offensive guy with Rodgers getting in the way.  But I admit that relative to the board I'm uncharacteristically pessimistic about MLF's design, creativity, and play-calling. 

I hope he is vindicated!  Certainly having a healthy OL, speed and talent at WR, and speed and talent at TE could open things up that just weren't available before. 

I'm also thinking that a QB who can run might hypothetically open some things?  QB escapes around the edge, scrambles for 1st down, keeps drive alive.  QB runs away from pressure, extends play, throws on the run big play to a guy open downfield with the extended time.  Some young QB legs might make some plays work and make play-design look better.  

[vegas492]

3 minutes ago, craig said:

I'm not confident it will taste that good?  I'm usually an optimist, and I know the board typically has envisioned MLF as a good offensive guy with Rodgers getting in the way.  But I admit that relative to the board I'm uncharacteristically pessimistic about MLF's design, creativity, and play-calling. 

I hope he is vindicated!  Certainly having a healthy OL, speed and talent at WR, and speed and talent at TE could open things up that just weren't available before. 

I'm also thinking that a QB who can run might hypothetically open some things?  QB escapes around the edge, scrambles for 1st down, keeps drive alive.  QB runs away from pressure, extends play, throws on the run big play to a guy open downfield with the extended time.  Some young QB legs might make some plays work and make play-design look better.  

I'll be happy if we are under center 75% of the time versus being in the gun or pistol all the time.

Love does need to use his legs when the opportunity is there.  Not like Fields, though.  But it sure would be nice to have a QB who can scramble for a few first downs a game.

[Refugee]

Just now, craig said:

I'm not confident it will taste that good?  I'm usually an optimist, and I know the board typically has envisioned MLF as a good offensive guy with Rodgers getting in the way.  But I admit that relative to the board I'm uncharacteristically pessimistic about MLF's design, creativity, and play-calling. 

I hope he is vindicated!  Certainly having a healthy OL, speed and talent at WR, and speed and talent at TE could open things up that just weren't available before. 

I'm also thinking that a QB who can run might hypothetically open some things?  QB escapes around the edge, scrambles for 1st down, keeps drive alive.  QB runs away from pressure, extends play, throws on the run big play to a guy open downfield with the extended time.  Some young QB legs might make some plays work and make play-design look better.  

I see +/- to both realities but am going forward with no expectations either way. I’m not sure how it will turn out, just that we should  get an honest evaluation of what this coach can do both in being architect of the offense and developing a QB. I’m a Rodgers supporter but it was definitely time to move on. Time to see if this is the coach to lead us into the future. 

[vegas492]

11 minutes ago, Refugee said:

I see +/- to both realities but am going forward with no expectations either way. I’m not sure how it will turn out, just that we should  get an honest evaluation of what this coach can do both in being architect of the offense and developing a QB. I’m a Rodgers supporter but it was definitely time to move on. Time to see if this is the coach to lead us into the future. 

It's odd to feel that way for a coach who has a record of 47-19 in the regular season, right?

But I'm right there with yah.  Coach needs to prove that it wasn't just Rodgers.  And to be fair?  He may do a better coaching job this year and get a win or two less than last year and it'll still be a win for him in my eyes.