Logan Paulsen says Chase Young “is in a different space physically and mentally”

[turtle28]

I'm just saying the dude loves football. There has been this narrative without anything but a conspiracy behind it on all social media and from some in here  that Chase actually doesn't want to play. I think JDR is one of Chase’s harshest critics bc like Rivera bc they took him 2nd overall & they expect elite play out of Chase always but when you're injured you can't play, which us what I've always said.

30 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

Lol. Hey man, you get it in when you can. He played well in his first game back. We need another big game from our whole d-line again. Lets keep this freight train rollin!

 

[offbyone]

Young needs to show consistency.  So far he has one, did not play game and one game where he showed some great play but also had some bad penalties.  Let's hope he continues to trend up.  But lets be honest here, he is very very far from rationalizing a contract of 30M a year.  I am certainly more open to a one extra year rental on the franchise tag.  Might make a lot more sense.

[turtle28]

14 hours ago, offbyone said:

Young needs to show consistency.  So far he has one, did not play game and one game where he showed some great play but also had some bad penalties.  Let's hope he continues to trend up.  But lets be honest here, he is very very far from rationalizing a contract of 30M a year.  I am certainly more open to a one extra year rental on the franchise tag.  Might make a lot more sense.

I don't think either of our DEs will command a $30 mil on avg contract short of either really exploding this year and having a top 5/All-Pro Bosa/Garrett/Watt type DE season.

Edited September 23, 2023 by turtle28

[Slappy Mc]

9 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I don't think either of our DEs will command a $30 mil on avg contract short of either really exploding this year and having a top 5 DE type season.

TBH I expect both of them to ask for around that. Why would they not? Both former 1st round picks and if they do even good this season they are going to look for that money.

[lavar703]

24 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

TBH I expect both of them to ask for around that. Why would they not? Both former 1st round picks and if they do even good this season they are going to look for that money.

And this is exactly why not picking up Youngs option was such a bad move. Had you not had so many impending free agents then fine, make him earn it if you want but based on the players we had coming up for contract adding another one as a strategy to make him earn it was beyond stupid and hurt the team financially. Its a move that I think a seasoned GM would've been more savvy about. 

[offbyone]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

I don't think either of our DEs will command a $30 mil on avg contract short of either really exploding this year and having a top 5 DE type season.

You think Young will give us a home town discount?  Mr all about the money?

Bosa just reset the market at 34M/year.  Before bosa the market was 25M.  What do you think Young will demand?  

[e16bball]

25 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

And this is exactly why not picking up Youngs option was such a bad move. Had you not had so many impending free agents then fine, make him earn it if you want but based on the players we had coming up for contract adding another one as a strategy to make him earn it was beyond stupid and hurt the team financially. Its a move that I think a seasoned GM would've been more savvy about. 

Bingo. I always felt it was a very bad decision. 

Possibly influenced by the ownership uncertainty, but I always thought it was bordering on indefensible. Willfully putting yourself in a position where you have two mega-talented DEs hitting FA at the same time is just not good roster strategy. Now you’re going to have to pay one of them full market value or watch them walk. Obviously there was a chance that you’d end up eating a big salary for a mediocre player in post-injury Chase, but those are the kinds of risks you can and should take when you are going to have a cheap QB.

[e16bball]

5 minutes ago, offbyone said:

You think Young will give us a home town discount?  Mr all about the money?

Bosa just reset the market at 34M/year.  Before bosa the market was 25M.  What do you think Young will demand?  

Does it matter that much what he “demands”? I’m really just concerned with what he “commands.”

If he puts up a DPOY season, which is what would absolutely be required for him to be able to use Bosa as any kind of comp, then maybe $30M is at least part of the discussion. 

But barring that, how could he possibly make the argument — to any team —that he should be getting paid similar money to guys like TJ Watt ($28M), Joey Bosa ($27M), Myles Garrett ($25M) or even Maxx Crosby ($23.5M)? He’s got great pedigree, and I’m sure there are teams out there who loved him coming out of OSU and would still be willing to buy in on the high end of what he can become. But between the injuries and two seasons out of four being essentially zeroes, I don’t think he could really even get anyone to buy that he belongs in that neighborhood unless he puts up something like a 15+ sack season. 

[MKnight82]

16 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Bingo. I always felt it was a very bad decision. 

Possibly influenced by the ownership uncertainty, but I always thought it was bordering on indefensible. Willfully putting yourself in a position where you have two mega-talented DEs hitting FA at the same time is just not good roster strategy. Now you’re going to have to pay one of them full market value or watch them walk. Obviously there was a chance that you’d end up eating a big salary for a mediocre player in post-injury Chase, but those are the kinds of risks you can and should take when you are going to have a cheap QB.

I think the second we extended Payne the idea that we would resign both DEs went out the window. 

[MKnight82]

4 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Does it matter that much what he “demands”? I’m really just concerned with what he “commands.”

If he puts up a DPOY season, which is what would absolutely be required for him to be able to use Bosa as any kind of comp, then maybe $30M is at least part of the discussion. 

But barring that, how could he possibly make the argument — to any team —that he should be getting paid similar money to guys like TJ Watt ($28M), Joey Bosa ($27M), Myles Garrett ($25M) or even Maxx Crosby ($23.5M)? He’s got great pedigree, and I’m sure there are teams out there who loved him coming out of OSU and would still be willing to buy in on the high end of what he can become. But between the injuries and two seasons out of four being essentially zeroes, I don’t think he could really even get anyone to buy that he belongs in that neighborhood unless he puts up something like a 15+ sack season. 

Realistically if Chase Young were to hit the open market I think he’d probably get a deal kind of like Clowney got. 1 year deal for a high dollar amount, maybe $15 mil. Like you said unless he completely goes nuts I can’t see anyone giving him real long term money. But I can see him wanting to relocate just to rehab his image. 

[e16bball]

1 minute ago, MKnight82 said:

I think the second we extended Payne the idea that we would resign both DEs went out the window. 

This is probably correct, although I will say that Allen is now at the point in his deal where he’s probably able to be restructured for a lower 2024 cap hit.

They’re going to be extremely cheap at a lot of other positions (QB, RB, probably TE, LB, even CB if Fuller is gone or does a new deal). In theory, that might allow you to allocate an extreme amount of cap space to the DL for at least a couple seasons, although resigning Curl also should be high on the priority list.

[offbyone]

57 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Does it matter that much what he “demands”? I’m really just concerned with what he “commands.”

If he puts up a DPOY season, which is what would absolutely be required for him to be able to use Bosa as any kind of comp, then maybe $30M is at least part of the discussion. 

But barring that, how could he possibly make the argument — to any team —that he should be getting paid similar money to guys like TJ Watt ($28M), Joey Bosa ($27M), Myles Garrett ($25M) or even Maxx Crosby ($23.5M)? He’s got great pedigree, and I’m sure there are teams out there who loved him coming out of OSU and would still be willing to buy in on the high end of what he can become. But between the injuries and two seasons out of four being essentially zeroes, I don’t think he could really even get anyone to buy that he belongs in that neighborhood unless he puts up something like a 15+ sack season. 

No doubt, but if he doesn't command top DE salary then why do we want him?  He certainly isn't going to accept < franchise tag.

The reality of it is, that he could not have a better set up to succeed.  Allen and Payne each demand more attention than him.  Other teams can not justify double teaming him regularly.  He has it easy.  If he doesn't create serious results and crazy stats than he just isn't an elite player and I don't think we can give him a contract hoping he becomes said elite player.  I just don't see how this works out well for us long term unless he blows up in the next month and we can trade him.

Completely agree that resigning Curl should be top priority and it should be done in season.

[lavar703]

3 hours ago, e16bball said:

This is probably correct, although I will say that Allen is now at the point in his deal where he’s probably able to be restructured for a lower 2024 cap hit.

They’re going to be extremely cheap at a lot of other positions (QB, RB, probably TE, LB, even CB if Fuller is gone or does a new deal). In theory, that might allow you to allocate an extreme amount of cap space to the DL for at least a couple seasons, although resigning Curl also should be high on the priority list.

And they should. They chose to build their team around the DL and they knew all of these guys would be up for a pay day at some point. They didn't draft 3/4 of the line but they paid 2 of them already and are trying their hardest according to Keim to get a third one done in Sweat. If Howell continues growing and you have a potential top 10 QB (getting ahead of myself I know) making $1M a season for two more years and going into next season right now with $85M in cap space sans cuts and restructures you can keep just about everyone if you wanted too. And to me, they have a very obvious philosophy with Rivera of building through the draft and retaining their own. My guess would be they attempt to get Curl and Sweat done during the season, restructure Terry, Allen and potentially Payne to create even more space and they tag Chase and try to re-sign Fuller, Brown and Saadiq Charles. It's just crazy how not picking up Chase's 5th year option created such a mess. How they didn't see this coming is beyond me?

I will also add to this, even though I am very, very much against it, if the team has a strong season I think there's a very good chance Rivera is elevated to the front office and Bienemy is named head coach similar to what happened with the Bucs. Not against it because of Bienemy but because I think Rivera needs to be let go. I can't imagine Harris is just going to let EB walk away if Howell continues to grow with him as his OC. 

Edited September 23, 2023 by lavar703

[turtle28]

13 hours ago, Slappy Mc said:

TBH I expect both of them to ask for around that. Why would they not? Both former 1st round picks and if they do even good this season they are going to look for that money.

Asking for it and getting it are two different things. In negotiations that will get knocked down. Now maybe if Sweat continues on this pace he won't agree to a deal similar to Payne’s, but that's in the neighborhood I see for him.

I'm with @MKnight82 Chase will either have to sign a one-year prove-it deal with us or someone else bc of his injuries. Or IMO we can franchise him. The key I think is locking up Sweat first of Sweat continues to play as he has the first 2 games. Then, you can franchise Chase.

Edited September 23, 2023 by turtle28

[turtle28]

13 hours ago, lavar703 said:

And this is exactly why not picking up Youngs option was such a bad move. Had you not had so many impending free agents then fine, make him earn it if you want but based on the players we had coming up for contract adding another one as a strategy to make him earn it was beyond stupid and hurt the team financially. Its a move that I think a seasoned GM would've been more savvy about.