Top 10 DL/Edge Units in the NFL

[SmittyBacall]

34 minutes ago, scar988 said:

Because those players as they start to make impacts will draw protections. It's how it works. If a dude is having a game, he should start drawing more of the attention. If Onyemata has gone off for 2 sacks in a game, he'll start seeing doubles and Jarrett will start seeing less doubles. If Ebiketie is having a game, same thing. It's just how the NFL works. You don't want to give up 7 sacks in a game to a guy if you can help it.

Players who make significant impacts require extra attention. The group of FAs they brought in don't make significant impacts. Unless Ebiketie develops into a star over night, it's not happening.

Hoping guys like Campbell or Onyemata draw attention away from Jarrett is a pipe dream. Like I said before, the benefit of bringing those guys in is that it raises the floor of the unit. Ideally, Onyemata and Campbell come in and provide a better chance of beating their 1 vs. 1's than the no-names you were starting last year. That doesn't mean they're going to dominate at a level that requires extra attention, or even be anything more than solid rotational guys, and it certainly doesn't make them larger threats to an offense than Jarrett.

Look at the Rams defensive line. Do you really think plopping your free agent crop into that line would affect how teams game plan Aaron Donald?

[scar988]

4 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

Players who make significant impacts require extra attention. The group of FAs they brought in don't make significant impacts. Unless Ebiketie develops into a star over night, it's not happening.

Hoping guys like Campbell or Onyemata draw attention away from Jarrett is a pipe dream. Like I said before, the benefit of bringing those guys in is that it raises the floor of the unit. Ideally, Onyemata and Campbell come in and provide a better chance of beating their 1 vs. 1's than the no-names you were starting last year. That doesn't mean they're going to dominate at a level that requires extra attention, or even be anything more than solid rotational guys, and it certainly doesn't make them larger threats to an offense than Jarrett.

Look at the Rams defensive line. Do you really think plopping your free agent crop into that line would affect how teams game plan Aaron Donald?

Fair point. It would give Donald a lot of help had the Rams gone out and gotten Onyemata and Campbell too. He has even less to work with than Jarrett did last year. At least Jarrett had an emerging Ta'Quon Graham next to him.

[Ozzy]

5 hours ago, Soko said:

The next 2-sack performance Onyemata has will be the third of his entire career and second in the past 5 years, lol. And that’s with future HOFer Cam Jordan on the line. 

That’s the whole point - the guys the Falcons brought in don’t typically “have games”. If they did, then they’d be helping Jarrett - they just typically…don’t. 

Is this front better than what they had before?  Ummm yes greatly, so who cares if a freaking 3/4 DL on the team is not going to have a 10 sack season, does not mean those guys will not greatly improve the front and in return the OLBs will be helped a ton as will the ILBs.

 

2023
Calais Campbell
David Onyemata
Zach Harrison

 

 

2022
Abdullah Anderson
Ta'Quon Graham
Timmy Horne
Jaleel Johnson

 

Two of the guys from last year are backups on the Falcons now and the other two are not on the roster anymore.  But pretend that the top three guys will not greatly help Grady Jarrett and basically everyone in that defense and improve it a good deal.  Not even considering the veteran leadership they will provide, something which Calais Campbell is amazing at, last time I checked.  Usually they do not give out Walter Payton Man of the Year awards to guys who are not great leaders and great people.

[scar988]

2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Is this front better than what they had before?  Ummm yes greatly, so who cares if a freaking 3/4 DL on the team is not going to have a 10 sack season, does not mean those guys will not greatly improve the front and in return the OLBs will be helped a ton as will the ILBs.

 

2023
Calais Campbell
David Onyemata
Zach Harrison

 

 

2022
Abdullah Anderson
Ta'Quon Graham
Timmy Horne
Jaleel Johnson

 

Two of the guys from last year are backups on the Falcons now and the other two are not on the roster anymore.  But pretend that the top three guys will not greatly help Grady Jarrett and basically everyone in that defense and improve it a good deal.  Not even considering the veteran leadership they will provide, something which Calais Campbell is amazing at, last time I checked.  Usually they do not give out Walter Payton Man of the Year awards to guys who are not great leaders and great people.

Thing is, Graham was actually doing well. He'll likely play the starting role in the 3-man fronts in base and Onyemata will come on for nickel. (60/40 split for those snaps in favor of Onyemata still). And Grady will likely rotate out some with Onyemata in base. But yeah, going from:

Abdullah Anderson/Timmy Horne

Ta'Quon Graham/Jaleel Johnson/Anthony Rush

Grady Jarrett

to

Calais Campbell/Zach Wilson

Ta'Quon Graham/David Onyemata

Grady Jarrett/Timmy Horne

is a big change and a massive upgrade. Yes, it raises the floor. But raising the floor from last in the league to average is what has been needed.

[Soko]

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Is this front better than what they had before?  Ummm yes greatly, so who cares if a freaking 3/4 DL on the team is not going to have a 10 sack season, does not mean those guys will not greatly improve the front and in return the OLBs will be helped a ton as will the ILBs.

 

Two of the guys from last year are backups on the Falcons now and the other two are not on the roster anymore.  But pretend that the top three guys will not greatly help Grady Jarrett and basically everyone in that defense and improve it a good deal.  Not even considering the veteran leadership they will provide, something which Calais Campbell is amazing at, last time I checked.  Usually they do not give out Walter Payton Man of the Year awards to guys who are not great leaders and great people.

Is every post you make a straw man? 

[BradfordSteeler]

Having the Bills and Pats above the Steelers seems egregious to be honest.

[Ozzy]

1 hour ago, BradfordSteeler said:

Having the Bills and Pats above the Steelers seems egregious to be honest.

Possibly, especially with how good Nick Herbig has looked this preseason and how good Benton should be inside. 

 

Keion White will arguably be just as good on the interior though and might be more impactful for the Patriots.  A huge part of that is White for the Pats in my book, and with Flowers back and already having Wise that is a deep DL and that is not considering Barmore either who still has plenty of room to improve.  And if Ronnie Perkins makes a similar jump that Uche did last year that would provide them even more depth, and Fagot has looked good in the preseason and Roberts has on the DL as well and I did not even list those guys.

But yeah if the Steelers can stay healthy they are awesome and if some backups keep developing especially on the DL that will help a ton.  

 

On 8/24/2023 at 5:36 PM, Soko said:

Is every post you make a straw man? 

What are you all pissed at Calais Campbell because he left Baltimore so now you pretend he sucks.  Having him on any roster helps the roster greatly because of the person and the man he is.  But no he is not going to help Atlanta?  Sure....

 

Hey did you watch any prospects yesterday afternoon and evening that are up and coming in college?  Of course you didn't, nice work, way to be on the ball.  

[Soko]

24 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Keion White will arguably be just as good on the interior though and might be more impactful for the Patriots.  A huge part of that is White for the Pats in my book, and with Flowers back and already having Wise that is a deep DL and that is not considering Barmore either who still has plenty of room to improve.  And if Ronnie Perkins makes a similar jump that Uche did last year that would provide them even more depth, and Fagot has looked good in the preseason and Roberts has on the DL as well and I did not even list those guys.

Oof. This is ugly.

Fagot is a pure STer and likely isn’t making the roster. Perkins hasn’t shown anything ever, aside from this last preseason game - he’s a complete coin toss on even making the team. Most insiders have him (and Fagot) being cut. Roberts is on the roster bubble too, although he at least does have some physical talent. He’s got a better shot than Perkins, but yeah, not even a given he makes the team. Flowers hasn’t even practiced in over a year. White hasn’t taken any practice snaps inside. So yeah, I wouldn’t have brought those guys up either, because most of them probably aren’t even making the team and almost certainly will contribute absolutely nothing to the team’s pass rush.

24 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

 

What are you all pissed at Calais Campbell because he left Baltimore so now you pretend he sucks.  Having him on any roster helps the roster greatly because of the person and the man he is.  But no he is not going to help Atlanta?  Sure....

I’m not even a Ravens fan, lol. 

So the answer to “does every post have a straw man argument from you?” is a resounding yes, lol.

I didn’t say he wouldn’t help Atlanta. I said Campbell isn’t going to pull pass rush attention away from Grady Jarrett.

[Ozzy]

1 hour ago, Soko said:

Oof. This is ugly.

Fagot is a pure STer and likely isn’t making the roster. Perkins hasn’t shown anything ever, aside from this last preseason game - he’s a complete coin toss on even making the team. Most insiders have him (and Fagot) being cut. Roberts is on the roster bubble too, although he at least does have some physical talent. He’s got a better shot than Perkins, but yeah, not even a given he makes the team. Flowers hasn’t even practiced in over a year. White hasn’t taken any practice snaps inside. So yeah, I wouldn’t have brought those guys up either, because most of them probably aren’t even making the team and almost certainly will contribute absolutely nothing to the team’s pass rush.

I’m not even a Ravens fan, lol. 

So the answer to “does every post have a straw man argument from you?” is a resounding yes, lol.

I didn’t say he wouldn’t help Atlanta. I said Campbell isn’t going to pull pass rush attention away from Grady Jarrett.

I am not really concerned what you have to say because clearly it is not what you have to say it is what you read.  "insiders" so you just read what others say and make it seem like your own thoughts?  I guess not at least you own up to it as not your own from time to time.  Mentioning Roberts and Fagot have to deal with depth, which is apparently something you care nothing about.  The depth this year or in a few seasons, making the roster or the practice squad they still flashed this preseason.  Josh Uche, let me guess two years ago you had no clue who he was because he did not do anything in the NFL yet.  Sorry but at least I try to project down the road and make commentary that is not just hey this guy was great last year.

.

 

As for White taking snaps inside, when did I say he was going to play NT for New England?  Keion White is a massively talented player and is arguably one of the most talented DL on New England in the past decade.  Maybe he does not turn out but my bet is he has a great season, he is easily the best one since they drafted Chandler Jones in 2012.  

 

And yes Calais Campbell will pull pass rush attention away from Grady Jarrett because he is a physical force out there that has to be accounted for, unlike last year which was a pretty suspect group as I pointed out earlier.  

[Soko]

51 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Mentioning Roberts and Fagot have to deal with depth, which is apparently something you care nothing about.  The depth this year or in a few seasons, making the roster or the practice squad they still flashed this preseason. 

So your rankings for “top 10 ___” is weighed on what practice squad/bubble players/guys likely not to make the team may or may not do in a few years?

If Fagot is seeing relevant snaps on defense either this year or in the near future - then there were a bunch of injuries and that defense is screwed. Roberts at least has physical potential, it’s just he hasn’t done anything to realize it yet and is at risk of getting cut. NE isn’t sucking in interior linemen because they’re so set with their current group. 

In Perkins’ case, unless you physically go to the Pats’ camp, you literally have nothing else to go off of other than insiders, lmao. The dude doesn’t play in the regular season. He’s roster fodder at this point, so is Fagot (at least he can play STs though).

51 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Josh Uche, let me guess two years ago you had no clue who he was because he did not do anything in the NFL yet. 

There’s the strawman

Uche was getting on the field and slowly coming along (still is). Perkins isn’t even touching the field. Your comparison is bad.

51 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

As for White taking snaps inside, when did I say he was going to play NT for New England?  Keion White is a massively talented player and is arguably one of the most talented DL on New England in the past decade.  Maybe he does not turn out but my bet is he has a great season, he is easily the best one since they drafted Chandler Jones in 2012.  

He might be. Hope he is. However there’s been no indication thus far that White’s taking snaps on the inside, as you suggested. Hard to be “just as good on the interior” if you don’t actually…play in the interior, right? Maybe he gets used like that down the road/in the future, but there hasn’t been signs of that thus far.

51 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

And yes Calais Campbell will pull pass rush attention away from Grady Jarrett because he is a physical force out there that has to be accounted for, unlike last year which was a pretty suspect group as I pointed out earlier.  

When was the last time Calais Campbell was a “physical force” in the pass rush department? Why would I, as a coach/OC/QB, shift protection to double Campbell and shift it away from Jarrett? Because he won the Man of the Year award? 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Soko

[Ozzy]

4 minutes ago, Soko said:

Uche was getting on the field and slowly coming along (still is). Perkins isn’t even touching the field. Your comparison is bad.

He might be. Hope he is. However there’s been no indication thus far that White’s taking snaps on the inside, as you suggested. Hard to be “just as good on the interior” if you don’t actually…play in the interior, right? Maybe he gets used like that down the road/in the future, but there hasn’t been signs of that thus far.

When was the last time Calais Campbell was a “physical force” in the pass rush department? Why would I, as a coach/OC/QB, shift protection to double Campbell and shift it away from Jarrett? Because he won the Man of the Year award? 

Still fact remains did you even know who Josh Uche was in say 2018, the answer is probably no.  You probably did not even know who he was in 2020 either.  Perkins is a talented player, sure has been hurt a ton and has not worked out but guys can improve over time and showcase their talent outside of their first season in the league.  If you were paying attention to them in college it would not be as big of a surprise, especially with Uche that guy was a demon on the edge for Michigan.  

 

As for interior, well Keion White is a 3/4 DE, he has a very good chance to be a WAY better player than Larry Ogunjobi, DeMarvin Leal, Armon Watts all guys who are the Steelers 3/4 DEs.  Only one that is better is the future Hall of Famer Cameron Heyward, not sure White will make that kind of impact as he has but in terms of the 2nd, 3rd and 4th string 3/4 DE White has them all beat talent wise and he has not even played a NFL snap yet.  That is the point, and White has a chance to be a better pro than Benton as well, different positions but long term I would say White has more upside and talent than Benton.  Then Barmore I would take all day over the backup NT in Adams for the Steelers, not to mention Wise who is talented and productive, and sure maybe Flowers career could be over, maybe not, but Lawrence Guy is a stout DE who can hold his own no question...

 

Being a good DL does not mean you have to get sacks all the time, this is not all about sacks and that is all that matters.  It is about controlling the line of scrimmage and stopping the run as well, Calais can no question do that and in terms of double teams, the improved OLB play will impact that greatly in helping free Jarrett up more, that along with the greatly improve DL play potential around him.  A good player is a good player, not all great players are doubled all game long either.  No one is saying defenses will shift protection to Calais instead, but doubling a guy is a hell of a lot easier with the crap DL they had last year, that is for sure.  

[SmittyBacall]

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

What are you all pissed at Calais Campbell because he left Baltimore so now you pretend he sucks.

@Soko He strawman’d your strawman post.

[Soko]

2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Still fact remains did you even know who Josh Uche was in say 2018, the answer is probably no.  You probably did not even know who he was in 2020 either.

You’d be wrong, sir.

2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Perkins is a talented player, sure has been hurt a ton and has not worked out but guys can improve over time and showcase their talent outside of their first season in the league.  If you were paying attention to them in college it would not be as big of a surprise, especially with Uche that guy was a demon on the edge for Michigan.  

Except…this isn’t his first year in the league. It’s his third. His injuries officially have kept him out, but the team purposely stashes him on IR because he’s still not showing them enough to actually make the roster and play. None of his injuries have been truly season ending. 

He and Uche’s career paths have been totally different. It’s a lazy attempt because they play the same position on the same team. 

2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

As for interior, well Keion White is a 3/4 DE, he has a very good chance to be a WAY better player than Larry Ogunjobi, DeMarvin Leal, Armon Watts all guys who are the Steelers 3/4 DEs.  Only one that is better is the future Hall of Famer Cameron Heyward, not sure White will make that kind of impact as he has but in terms of the 2nd, 3rd and 4th string 3/4 DE White has them all beat talent wise and he has not even played a NFL snap yet.  That is the point, and White has a chance to be a better pro than Benton as well, different positions but long term I would say White has more upside and talent than Benton.  Then Barmore I would take all day over the backup NT in Adams for the Steelers, not to mention Wise who is talented and productive, and sure maybe Flowers career could be over, maybe not, but Lawrence Guy is a stout DE who can hold his own no question...

Barmore doesn’t play NT. And White’s lined up as a pure edge, as well as a more traditional 5-tech. Again, doesn’t mean either guy won’t ever do anything else, but what your describing isn’t what they’ve been asked to do.

I’m not commenting on Pittsburgh vs NE. I’m commenting on your misunderstanding of NE players.

2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Being a good DL does not mean you have to get sacks all the time, this is not all about sacks and that is all that matters.  It is about controlling the line of scrimmage and stopping the run as well,

Then you should knock NE even more, because they’ve been having problems with the run for two+ years now.

2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Calais can no question do that and in terms of double teams, the improved OLB play will impact that greatly in helping free Jarrett up more, that along with the greatly improve DL play potential around him.  A good player is a good player, not all great players are doubled all game long either.  No one is saying defenses will shift protection to Calais instead, but doubling a guy is a hell of a lot easier with the crap DL they had last year, that is for sure.  

Easier? I’ll give you easier, sure. It’ll make it harder to run away from Jarrett, if that’s what in fact teams were doing (I imagine so). But again, I’ve been talking from a pass rush department.

EDIT: Diego Fagot has already been released, lol.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Soko

[Ozzy]

4 hours ago, Soko said:

You’d be wrong, sir.

Except…this isn’t his first year in the league. It’s his third. His injuries officially have kept him out, but the team purposely stashes him on IR because he’s still not showing them enough to actually make the roster and play. None of his injuries have been truly season ending. 

He and Uche’s career paths have been totally different. It’s a lazy attempt because they play the same position on the same team. 

Barmore doesn’t play NT. And White’s lined up as a pure edge, as well as a more traditional 5-tech. Again, doesn’t mean either guy won’t ever do anything else, but what your describing isn’t what they’ve been asked to do.

I’m not commenting on Pittsburgh vs NE. I’m commenting on your misunderstanding of NE players.

Then you should knock NE even more, because they’ve been having problems with the run for two+ years now.

Easier? I’ll give you easier, sure. It’ll make it harder to run away from Jarrett, if that’s what in fact teams were doing (I imagine so). But again, I’ve been talking from a pass rush department.

EDIT: Diego Fagot has already been released, lol.

Semantics much?

 

Really defenses in the NFL play multiple fronts and sometimes in a 3/4 it is a 4/2/5, or a 3/3/5....  Yeah they do.

 

Either way White/ Barmore as young up and coming prospects long term will be better than Adams/Watts/Ojunjobi/Neal long term.  

 

Not to mention Guy, Godchaux, Ekuale and Roberts potentially and the Steelers do not have depth guys like that on their roster currently.  Depth New England has the Steelers on the DL but if Benton is a super star and already having Heyward the Steelers starters would get the nod.

 

Ronnie Perkins is a super bendy athlete who has impressive quickness and pass rush potential that is why I compared the two, both are very bendy edge rushers.  Clearly one has some off the field issues that slowed his pro career a good deal along with some injuries.  

 

 

As for lazy, last time I checked you provide nothing in terms of prospects coming into the league, so yeah I question how much you actually pay attention to that at all.  Once they are in the league, well clearly there is plenty of "insiders" to read and use their opinions.  As for Fagot, sure he will make the practice squad and provide something in the future but another team could pick him up as well.  That is not really the point, Quincy Roche might be cut and be picked up as well by another team so decent OLB depth for the Steelers as well going into the third string.  OLB depth overall Steelers have the Patriots beat no question but a ton of that has to do with Herbig, the experience of Golden and the potential of Roche.  If TJ Watt goes down and gets hurt again, changes a lot of course but nice to have the upside of Herbig waiting in the wings.  Something they did not have last year where they have no real option when Watt went down, now they have two solid options potentially.  

Edited August 28, 2023 by Ozzy

[Soko]

53 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Schemantics much?

what are scehamntics?

53 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Really defenses in the NFL play multiple fronts and sometimes in a 3/4 it is a 4/2/5, or a 3/3/5....  Yeah they do.

That’s certainly true. Doesn’t mean Barmore is playing a 0, or White is playing a 3-5.

53 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Either way White/ Barmore as young up and coming prospects long term will be better than Adams/Watts/Ojunjobi/Neal long term.  

Probably, but again, was never commenting on Pittsburgh vs NE.

53 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Not to mention Guy, Godchaux, Ekuale and Roberts potentially and the Steelers do not have depth guys like that on their roster currently.  Depth New England has the Steelers on the DL but if Benton is a super star and already having Heyward the Steelers starters would get the nod.

Ekuale sucks. Guy isn’t really such a solid player anymore, unfortunately. Probably above being just a body out there, but he’s not great anymore. Godchaux is mixed. Heyward, as you said, is significantly better than all those guys. But again, was never commenting on Pittsburgh vs NE.

53 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Ronnie Perkins is a super bendy athlete who has impressive quickness and pass rush potential that is why I compared the two, both are very bendy edge rushers.  Clearly one has some off the field issues that slowed his pro career a good deal along with some injuries.  

Perkins’ off the field stuff hasn’t affected his time in NE thus far. He just hasn’t shown enough to make the team. Which is saying a lot, because prior to this year, NE’s lacked edge rushers. Judon’s been good there obviously, Wise kinda moonlights there when necessary but that’s not his specialty. Uche finally came on, but Perkins had his chance to compete there in the first two years. And now throughout the spring and camp this year, aside from a final preseason game, he hasn’t done anything to standout there. With White in the fold and Anfernee Jennings stout vs the run, Perkins’ roster spot is basically way up in the air. He’s not going to contribute on third down, at least not this year.

53 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

As for lazy, last time I checked you provide nothing in terms of prospects coming into the league, so yeah I question how much you actually pay attention to that at all.  Once they are in the league, well clearly there is plenty of "insiders" to read and use their opinions.  As for Fagot, sure he will make the practice squad and provide something in the future but another team could pick him up as well. 

Lazy is just throwing the teams’ backup/roster fodder into a post and saying that that’s good depth. Perkins isn’t depth. Fagot isn’t depth. Roberts isn’t depth. Could they be one day? Sure. But they aren’t right now. They’re fringe roster guys on the bubble that haven’t proven anything in this league. In Perkins’ case that’s actually literally true, because he’s never played an NFL down. 

You take the time to watch these guys in college, that’s great. Things change. Ronnie Perkins looked like a decent prospect at one time, but he’s been nonexistent at the NFL level. You don’t need special eyes to see that. 

53 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

That is not really the point, Quincy Roche might be cut and be picked up as well by another team so decent OLB depth for the Steelers as well going into the third string.  OLB depth overall Steelers have the Patriots beat no question but a ton of that has to do with Herbig, the experience of Golden and the potential of Roche.  If TJ Watt goes down and gets hurt again, changes a lot of course but nice to have the upside of Herbig waiting in the wings.  Something they did not have last year where they have no real option when Watt went down, now they have two solid options potentially.  

Yeah, once again, never commented or cared about NE vs Pittsburgh.