2023 Offensive line.

[Old Guy]

22 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Newman isn't a JAG.  He's started.  Dude can give you 8 excellent reps and then two god awful ones.  It's about consistency with him.  If you want to get out of a game?  He can do it.  If you need a spot start?  He can do it.  The guy has live NFL snaps and games under his belt.  He hasn't progressed, which is very frustrating.  He makes the same mistakes, which is wildly frustrating.  I'd love to upgrade him, but it just because of his lack of consistency.  

Rhyan.  He's a third round pick.  He's gotta be fine, though there is no real evidence for that right now.  Just a gut feeling based on a few preseason reps.

We are certainly weaker at guard than we are at tackle in my book.  If you want to call Newman a JAG?  I won't rail against it too much, as it is subjective.  Rhyan should be better than him very shortly.

Nijman has started plenty.  If he's your first tackle off the bench?  You are fine.  Or you can flip flop him with Tom.  Fine.  Walker played a whole lot this week.  Feet look just fine, frame is perfect.  He's everything you'd want in Tackle 4.  Jones looks the part of a RT as well.

Hanson is not what I want at center.  I'd cut him and play JRJ there, or Tom as a backup.  Then I'd stash someone on the PS at center and call up as needed.

If we had JAGS on the o-line, it would have shown up in this first two games.  But it hasn't.  Our backups on the o-line have been much better than the backups they are going against.  It is a very encouraging sign.

I don't want to get into an argument but how is Newman not a JAG? I looked up JAG in the dictionary and saw his picture. He's been nothing short of awful against the other teams' scrubs. He really doesn't deserve a roster spot. 

[vegas492]

6 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

I don't want to get into an argument but how is Newman not a JAG? I looked up JAG in the dictionary and saw his picture. He's been nothing short of awful against the other teams' scrubs. He really doesn't deserve a roster spot. 

Told yah, I won't really fight you on that term with him.  I get where you are coming from.  I do not agree, but I do get your viewpoint.

And I feel like we both hope that Rhyan jumps him on the depth chart, right?

Tackles?  We have tackles.  

And in the end?  Especially compared to past year's pre-season games?  Our o-line looks a whole lot better right now.

And I would be totally for a move to bring in another guard versus what we have.  I doubt that guy is Risner, as he will want to start, but there has to be something more consistent than Newman.  This is a team that carried Lane Taylor in that role as well as Lucas Patrick.

But I really do like the tackles and I feel like we can get out of a game, or start a game, if we had to use JRJ or Tom at center.

[Old Guy]

1 minute ago, vegas492 said:

Told yah, I won't really fight you on that term with him.  I get where you are coming from.  I do not agree, but I do get your viewpoint.

And I feel like we both hope that Rhyan jumps him on the depth chart, right?

Tackles?  We have tackles.  

And in the end?  Especially compared to past year's pre-season games?  Our o-line looks a whole lot better right now.

And I would be totally for a move to bring in another guard versus what we have.  I doubt that guy is Risner, as he will want to start, but there has to be something more consistent than Newman.  This is a team that carried Lane Taylor in that role as well as Lucas Patrick.

But I really do like the tackles and I feel like we can get out of a game, or start a game, if we had to use JRJ or Tom at center.

Ryhan was my pick to make a big second year jump. He's made a jump but hardly a leap. I loved that pick when we made it. I'm going to stand by him. 

We will definitely be searing for interior help via the waiver wire at cutdowns. Like with every year the final 53 won't be final until a few days after final cutdowns. 

[Brat&Beer]

16 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

I think I read where MLF gave him 1st team reps as a reward in practice. I do not remember him starting either of our games and have heard nothing regarding him passing Nijman at LT.

Who are you quoting? 

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/lists/packers-pff-grades-best-worst-players-from-preseason-game-vs-patriots/?itm_source=parsely-api

Walker did start at LT, not Nijman. However, the statement that Walker has jumped ahead of Nijman on the depth chart at LT was just the writer's opinion. 

[Packerraymond]

1 hour ago, Old Guy said:

My response was to @AlexGreen#20breakdown of our o-line. We all agree with the six you pointed out. Newman, having played hardly makes him anything. His play of late would be a compliment to call him a JAG. He's been awful to the point you have to wonder if he's making the roster.

Rhyan - we don't know. He's better than last year but is he ready for prime time. 

Hanson - certainly not a guard, center, I'd be scared if he were in there. JAG in every sense of the word.

Walker - I'll defer to AG, we don't know what he might be, but he has a different analysis than you do. 

Jones - we don't know. 

The rest - we don't know, and they will likely not make the team. 

I'm not saying he's right and you are wrong. I've just been reading a ton of hype and wanted other opinions on where we are depth wise. 

Having a bunch of JAG's at OL #7-10 is exceptional depth.

Most NFL teams don't have a guy worthy of playing pro football at those spots.

[Old Guy]

Just now, Brat&Beer said:

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/lists/packers-pff-grades-best-worst-players-from-preseason-game-vs-patriots/?itm_source=parsely-api

Walker did start at LT, not Nijman. However, the statement that Walker has jumped ahead of Nijman on the depth chart at LT was just the writer's opinion. 

I swear I saw Tom playing LT against NE? 

Maybe they want to test Walker to feel comfortable trading Bak to the Jets at the trade deadline. LOL

[Old Guy]

Just now, Packerraymond said:

Having a bunch of JAG's at OL #7-10 is exceptional depth.

Most NFL teams don't have a guy worthy of playing pro football at those spots.

Well, if we keep Newman and Hanson we have two of those guys not worthy. 

[packfanfb]

1 hour ago, Old Guy said:

What you are saying is the hype about the depth of our offensive line is exaggerated. Seems like we are six deep with a bunch of JAGs filling out roster spots. 

Welcome to the NFL. 

We are better off than about 95% of other teams.

[Packerraymond]

Just now, Old Guy said:

Well, if we keep Newman and Hanson we have two of those guys not worthy. 

I think you don't have a realistic idea of what a backup OL in the NFL is. You give Royce or Hanson help and they'll get you through a game minimally unscathed.

[craig]

I like the shape we're in.  Thus far, seems like no injuries.  Seems like Tom has held up well as the RT.  Nijman seems nice as tackle backup.  I'm optimistic that Rhyan is ready at guard.  And Walker has looked capable.  Maybe fate will be ironic:  the year our depth is good, maybe this will be the year where injuries will be few and the depth won't be needed?  

1. Hart to know what Walker or Rhyan can do until they play in games.  But I'm pretty optimistic.
2. "JAG" is pejorative.  But if your 4th tackle and 3rd or 4th guards are good enough to be JAG-average rather than awful, that's not bad?  I think that both Walker and Rhyan are ready to be anti-awful, and might get variably better with opportunity.
3. Practice and exhibition games don't have creative stunts and blitzes meant to confuse.  Seeing Barry's same defense all the time, guys may not be surprised often in practice, and may look pretty good.  But real games against unfamiliar and creative defenses, it can be kinda different?  Too soon to know.  
4. Not knowing with draft-and-develop depth guys, that's the NFL.  Can't expect to be too sure until opportunity knocks.  

Edited August 21, 2023 by craig

[vegas492]

12 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

I swear I saw Tom playing LT against NE? 

Maybe they want to test Walker to feel comfortable trading Bak to the Jets at the trade deadline. LOL

I thought that Walker played out there for most of the game.  I know I saw Tom do really good things at RT, especially in the run game.

[vegas492]

10 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

I think you don't have a realistic idea of what a backup OL in the NFL is. You give Royce or Hanson help and they'll get you through a game minimally unscathed.

I feel like the key is help, as you stated.

I also feel like Hanson can get you out of a game, or maybe even a spot start, at center only.  At guard he's really difficult to cover up.

Newman?  I feel better about him at guard than I do Hanson.  

And I really want Rhyan to be the first guard off of the bench, but that probably isn't happening just yet.

[Leader]

It's not 2023...but....

 

[Packerraymond]

15 minutes ago, Leader said:

It's not 2023...but....

 

If you can bet on what position the Packers will take in round 1 next year, OT is a pretty safe bet. Especially if they have two firsts. 

Think we'll see 2-3 OL again next year in our class.

Some RBs and DBs too which have been absent from prior classes.

[craig]

4 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Hard to accept trading Tackles for Guards without a draft pick compensation coming back. You're trading quarters for nickels. 

Even still I wouldn't do it. Bakh's injury history is too extensive to rush playing Caleb Jones for 12 weeks. Just can't do it. 

No reason to trade away our strengths. 

Don't see Packers doing any trading of Nijman.  But quarters for nickels analogy is nice and catchy, but lacks a little nuance.  Not all tackles are the same value (they aren't all quarters), nor are all guards nickels.  

*IF* you're not projecting to pay Nijman for a FA extension, then his value is expiring.  And if it's quarters for nickels, then you ought to be able to get a guard who is much better relative to guards than your tackle is relative to other tackles.  A 70th percentile guard for a 45th percentile tackle?