AZBearsFan Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 On 10/8/2023 at 4:01 PM, Epyon said: Round 2 at this point, I'm looking at Van Pran-OC or Frazier-OC Been seeing some places list Frazier above Van Pran recently.... He's a got a wrestling pedigree and apparently gorilla strength. I’ve seen a lot of Bears Twitter talking SVP in R2 and I just don’t think he lasts that long. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted October 17, 2023 Author Share Posted October 17, 2023 4 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: I’ve seen a lot of Bears Twitter talking SVP in R2 and I just don’t think he lasts that long. I'd gladly take Frazier in early round 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 I think early in the process I have been a bit harsh on Drake Maye... I still think the gap between him and Williams is fairly big but Maye is more impressive than I originally thought...he is a more athletic cross between Sam Bradford & Jared Goff IMO which considering both are former #1 Overall picks is not a bad thing... If we aren't picking #1 for any reason and have to go with Maye I know an OC who has experience working one of those guys who could get the very best out of him as an HC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: I think early in the process I have been a bit harsh on Drake Maye... I still think the gap between him and Williams is fairly big but Maye is more impressive than I originally thought...he is a more athletic cross between Sam Bradford & Jared Goff IMO which considering both are former #1 Overall picks is not a bad thing... If we aren't picking #1 for any reason and have to go with Maye I know an OC who has experience working one of those guys who could get the very best out of him as an HC. I really like Maye in general... He has much better size to see over the line and has a very live arm with good touch. He also does very well in structure, which I don't see a ton of from Williams. The critique I can tell is that he isn't as strong outside of structure. That's not necessarily a problem on a good team, but it will be an issue on our team until we can get clean pockets, and receivers open within the windows required to play within structure. The real issue, that scares the hell out of me for Maye, is still UNC. Watch his eyes post snap. UNC runs half field reads, with only one actual read/key per play. I can watch his tape all day, and come away with zero idea on whether the kid is good or not, because he doesn't make reads like you would and need to at the NFL level. The game is largely won at the QB position mentally, neither Brady or Peyton had the physical tools that Maye has, but both where among the best because they had the brains for it and could read defenses better than most coaches. -There's also the factors in any decision between Maye and Williams just on the narrative. The narrative is that Williams is this infallible prospect, if we passed on him, we'd also be YET AGAIN passing on the "generational level talent" (albeit Mahomes' evaluation from most people came AFTER he was good in the NFL) to draft a UNC QB wearing #10 that was never taught to read a defense. That is immense pressure on a GM on it's own..... but consider for just a moment that Williams comes to the NFL and is a less athletic Justin Fields.... In his recent worst game, he made a number of bad plays because of pressure and folded like origami... I can easily see that problem continuing or even multiplying with what we have here in Chicago right now and him busting hard here. And fwiw, I had Mahomes, Burrow, and Lawrence as prospects all well ahead of where I've currently got Caleb. I wasn't even a big Fields fan, but I'd probably have had him listed above Caleb too for a prospect. Fans will absolutely crucify Poles if they pass on Willliams, but those same fans would also lose their minds if Williams busts and Maye does well. -Final thoughts (bit of a scatterbrained post) regarding both Williams and Maye. I honestly like what I've seen out of Maye so far more than what I've seen out of Williams. THAT SAID, I still pick Williams right now, if I have to choose. Why? It's a theory I developed scouting MMA fighters: There are people who paint by numbers, and there are people who are artists and create dynamically. In fighters you had guys like Lyoto Machida, who where entirely "paint by numbers" guys. They don't just throw a punch, they throw a punch the EXACT way they where taught to throw a punch. Then there where guys like Anderson Silva, who where artists.... and they threw a punch by knowing where they wanted their fist to go, and would dynamically create a way for it to get there. Maye to me, is a "paint by numbers" player. He might be good, he might even be great, but he is a guy who wants things to be going perfect for it to get there. In MMA, Lyoto managed to win a title by going undefeated....but once fighters started figuring out how to get him off his game, he started getting beat as often as he'd win. Caleb, on the other hand, is an artist, and the artist always has a higher ceiling than the paint by numbers guy to me, because the artist doesn't need a step by step checklist to get the job done, when they can just improvise new and exciting ways to do it on the fly. Edited October 18, 2023 by Epyon 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 JJ McCarthy is starting to close the gap on the big two QB prospects in this class IMO…he is in a great spot in that Michigan offence where it isn’t all on his shoulders but when they need a play this season he is making them routinely while playing behind probably his weakest OL in his time there…his arm looks stronger than ever and the way he spins it sends it cutting through the air in a hurry and with accuracy…he made a lot of good throws against an overmatched Michigan State team but his 2nd TD throw to Loveland last night showed just where his game has developed over the last year… If Harbaugh is coming here then I would have no issue with McCarthy following if we wanted to trade down and look to not put as much on the QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted October 22, 2023 Author Share Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: JJ McCarthy is starting to close the gap on the big two QB prospects in this class IMO…he is in a great spot in that Michigan offence where it isn’t all on his shoulders but when they need a play this season he is making them routinely while playing behind probably his weakest OL in his time there…his arm looks stronger than ever and the way he spins it sends it cutting through the air in a hurry and with accuracy…he made a lot of good throws against an overmatched Michigan State team but his 2nd TD throw to Loveland last night showed just where his game has developed over the last year… If Harbaugh is coming here then I would have no issue with McCarthy following if we wanted to trade down and look to not put as much on the QB. I can agree but it goes back to play calling in a way. Yesterday USC was averaged 9.1 ypc. All of a sudden they stopped for no reason. Perhaps if USC did what Michigan consistently does Williams wouldn't have to literally do everything. Riley has to realize that isn't working. The rumor is Williams has torn ligaments in his right pinky. That alone should give Riley a clue to stop throwing the ball 40+ times every weekend. It doesn't help that on a lot of the replays last night Williams had no one open Regardless the hero ball on every play has to stop. Relax and play football Edited October 22, 2023 by beardown3231 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 3 hours ago, Madmike90 said: JJ McCarthy is starting to close the gap on the big two QB prospects in this class IMO…he is in a great spot in that Michigan offence where it isn’t all on his shoulders but when they need a play this season he is making them routinely while playing behind probably his weakest OL in his time there…his arm looks stronger than ever and the way he spins it sends it cutting through the air in a hurry and with accuracy…he made a lot of good throws against an overmatched Michigan State team but his 2nd TD throw to Loveland last night showed just where his game has developed over the last year… If Harbaugh is coming here then I would have no issue with McCarthy following if we wanted to trade down and look to not put as much on the QB. McCarthy throw from difference angles... Drake Maye also had an excellent throw up the seam last night to one of the most underrated underclassman Wideouts in the class Tez Walker... And just incase anyone thinks this is some sort of anti-Caleb post (as much as some of the sore loser & leadership stuff is a bit of concern) here is what he can do from the pocket...not just all backyard football... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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