beardown3231 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 5 minutes ago, TankWilliams said: Fields can be a great NFL QB, yes, thats why he was taken #11 overall. But I don't think its even slightly controversial at this point to say Caleb's potential ceiling is higher than Fields. This is where I think homerism comes into play. Its possible Caleb Williams ends up being a bust, but he's not so widely regarded as a #1 overall, borderline generational talent for no reason. If Fields was the quarterback of the Packers we'd all be saying "HAHA not so easy without Rodgers" and "welcome to QB purgatory!" but he's the quarterback of the Bears so he has a ton of potential still and if he has two #1's and a great OC he might be an above average thrower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 8 minutes ago, TankWilliams said: Fields can be a great NFL QB, yes, thats why he was taken #11 overall. But I don't think its even slightly controversial at this point to say Caleb's potential ceiling is higher than Fields. This is where I think homerism comes into play. Its possible Caleb Williams ends up being a bust, but he's not so widely regarded as a #1 overall, borderline generational talent for no reason. We’ll have to agree to disagree, because with Fields’ athletic ability if he figures it out as a passer he could very well be the most dangerous and difficult to defend QB in the league. I’m not saying it will ever happen or that he’s that now (he’s obviously not), but that’s his potential. And yes, @beardown3231, I’d say that if he were GB’s QB too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankWilliams Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 16 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: We’ll have to agree to disagree, because with Fields’ athletic ability if he figures it out as a passer he could very well be the most dangerous and difficult to defend QB in the league. I’m not saying it will ever happen or that he’s that now (he’s obviously not), but that’s his potential. And yes, @beardown3231, I’d say that if he were GB’s QB too. If Bo Jackson never got hurt, and didn't play two sports, and switched positions to QB, and became a great passer, his potential would be higher than caleb williams too, if thats the logic we are going off of. My goal is not to totally dismiss Fields, I think in the right situation with the right team he could definitely be a winner, but realistically speaking even if all the cards fall in his favor, I don't see his upside comparing to Caleb Williams. Caleb is not without athletic ability, either. He's never going to rush for 1000 yards in the NFL but he's certainly capable of making elusive runs if he needs to. I'm not even totally head over heals for Caleb as a prospect like a lot of folks are, I definitely have my share of concerns about his intangibles, but we seem to be bending over backwards around here for Justin's sake. None of this means that there isn't a potential argument to be made that keeping Justin and building up a helluva roster around him is a better choice going with Caleb now, but I think saying that Fields at this point has a higher upside than Caleb is just silly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 4 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: I don’t know how you can possibly have this opinion right now Because keeping Fields at this time as the Bears QB all things considered is just not the right or smart move and Poles is smart. There is a large gap between keeping Flus which I didn’t agree with and keeping Fields. Up until Fields is traded they will be signing his praises and talking like they may keep him. They have to for trade value and in case things happen below where they end up keeping Fields. The only two reasons I hedge is if top college guys have character concerns or whatever that makes you reconsider them. Or if someone makes an insanely generous offer for 1. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
refundmytickets Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 13 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: We’ll have to agree to disagree, because with Fields’ athletic ability if he figures it out as a passer he could very well be the most dangerous and difficult to defend QB in the league. I’m not saying it will ever happen or that he’s that now (he’s obviously not), but that’s his potential. And yes, @beardown3231, I’d say that if he were GB’s QB too. I'm on the fence about this. Is it harder to defend an elite running QB who's an above-average passer or an elite passing QB who's an above-average runner? Would you rather coach against Rodgers or Jackson? I see arguments for both. Elite runners can turn well-defended plays into TDs. Elite throwers open up space because they threaten all areas of the field. Maybe elite throwers are more containable whereas elite runners are more explosive. I'd say Fields has a higher top-end potential but Williams is more likely to be the better player. This is very subjective, but I think Williams' QB actions are more natural and that simplifies his development path. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 3 minutes ago, TankWilliams said: If Bo Jackson never got hurt, and didn't play two sports, and switched positions to QB, and became a great passer, his potential would be higher than caleb williams too, if thats the logic we are going off of. My goal is not to totally dismiss Fields, I think in the right situation with the right team he could definitely be a winner, but realistically speaking even if all the cards fall in his favor, I don't see his upside comparing to Caleb Williams. Caleb is not without athletic ability, either. He's never going to rush for 1000 yards in the NFL but he's certainly capable of making elusive runs if he needs to. I'm not even totally head over heals for Caleb as a prospect like a lot of folks are, I definitely have my share of concerns about his intangibles, but we seem to be bending over backwards around here for Justin's sake. None of this means that there isn't a potential argument to be made that keeping Justin and building up a helluva roster around him is a better choice going with Caleb now, but I think saying that Fields at this point has a higher upside than Caleb is just silly. I didn’t say Fields’ upside was higher. I said if he figures it out he’ll likely be one of the most dangerous QBs in the league. Williams’ potential is also to become one of the most dangerous QBs in the league. If Fields didn’t have a comparable upside to Williams there wouldn’t even be a discussion about potentially keeping him, for all of the reasons everyone who likes Williams for the Bears (which includes me) likes him. 🍻 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 3 minutes ago, refundmytickets said: I'm on the fence about this. Is it harder to defend an elite running QB who's an above-average passer or an elite passing QB who's an above-average runner? Would you rather coach against Rodgers or Jackson? I see arguments for both. Elite runners can turn well-defended plays into TDs. Elite throwers open up space because they threaten all areas of the field. Maybe elite throwers are more containable whereas elite runners are more explosive. I'd say Fields has a higher top-end potential but Williams is more likely to be the better player. This is very subjective, but I think Williams' QB actions are more natural and that simplifies his development path. I think that’s a really fair and well reasoned way to look at it. Both are really hard to defend. They’re differently elite, but both elite nonetheless. (They being Rodgers and Jackson) Edited January 14 by AZBearsFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
refundmytickets Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 11 minutes ago, TankWilliams said: None of this means that there isn't a potential argument to be made that keeping Justin and building up a helluva roster around him is a better choice going with Caleb now, but I think saying that Fields at this point has a higher upside than Caleb is just silly. Fields has great potential as a pure athlete but nobody would say he's a natural QB. Part of any QB's potential is their innate ability to do QB stuff. Too often we overlook those qualities as "learnable". History says it's not that simple. A lot of great athletes never learned how to play QB. Edited January 14 by refundmytickets 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 8 hours ago, refundmytickets said: Fields has great potential as a pure athlete but nobody would say he's a natural QB. Part of any QB's potential is their innate ability to do QB stuff. Too often we overlook those qualities as "learnable". History says it's not that simple. A lot of great athletes never learned how to play QB. That's a bit of a concerning statement in any evaluation of Fields for me... People need to remember how he looked at Ohio State where he wasn't seen as just a great athlete...he was a great QB...he won from the pocket way more than he made spectacular running plays and if anything when people saw just how athletic he was it was somewhat surprising...now of course that is college where he was playing for a better offensive play caller and in a better scheme while having a ton of talent around him but he was still a QB and not just some athlete who people thought would need to learn a ton of things about playing the position... Now I agree he is not a natural QB and if I am completely honest I think in some aspects between Nagy/Getsy he has taken some steps backwards...mostly when it comes to just ripping it down field (that said outside of DJ who is open?) but what I would say is look at Fields when he was throwing to DJ & even Kmet...no one can question his QB play then because time after time his QBR when targeting those guys was well over 100...so for me it goes back to how do you support your QB and not how do you replace him... I would also say keep in mind what Kevin Warren said at his end of season press conference about stability...if your keeping Poles/Flus & most of the staff why then piss off your locker room by changing the QB when you have also admitted in your firings that he hasn't been in a good scheme with good coaching or play calling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
refundmytickets Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 3 hours ago, Madmike90 said: what I would say is look at Fields when he was throwing to DJ & even Kmet...no one can question his QB play then because time after time his QBR when targeting those guys was well over 100 I would think any QB will have better stats throwing to WR1 than to others. That doesn't seem unique to Fields. Those receivers have the most playmaking ability and get the most routes designed for them. That Fields is so bad throwing to anyone else is more concerning. It almost confirms that he struggles to work through progressions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 3 minutes ago, refundmytickets said: I would think any QB will have better stats throwing to WR1 than to others. That doesn't seem unique to Fields. Those receivers have the most playmaking ability and get the most routes designed for them. That Fields is so bad throwing to anyone else is more concerning. It almost confirms that he struggles to work through progressions. But he isn't bad to throwing to anyone else because as I said he was excellent when targeting Kmet as well... It says more about the rest of the talent around him than it does about Fields given we finishes with one of the lowest percentages of separation amongst WRs in the NFL and that was with DJ massively lifting the stat individually...not only is there a lack of talent but the scheme was terrible...look at last night with Stroud...yes some of those throws were great...but they were great to receivers who were running open time and time again...when did you see that with us last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
refundmytickets Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 4 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: It says more about the rest of the talent around him than it does about Fields given we finishes with one of the lowest percentages of separation amongst WRs in the NFL and that was with DJ massively lifting the stat individually...not only is there a lack of talent but the scheme was terrible...look at last night with Stroud...yes some of those throws were great...but they were great to receivers who were running open time and time again...when did you see that with us last year? Where are you getting this stat? NFL Next Gen Stats shows Mooney with 3.1 average separation yards and Moore with 2.9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 minute ago, refundmytickets said: Where are you getting this stat? NFL Next Gen Stats shows Mooney with 3.1 average separation yards and Moore with 2.9. You can't possible believe that is true from watching the games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
refundmytickets Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 4 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: You can't possible believe that is true from watching the games? https://twitter.com/throwthedamball/status/1745438913345532023 Certainly doesn't look like the Bears' top 3 are awful at separating. Nor that Moore is wildly better than Mooney or Scott at getting open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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