notthatbluestuff Posted September 13, 2023 Author Share Posted September 13, 2023 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsGuy82 Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 What absolutely blows my mind is the hate Allen getting.. Over the last 2 seasons Allen operates off 50% of the playbook because our OL cannot open holes for a ground game and JA doesn't have enough time to let intermediate and deep routes develop consistently. You plug in any QB not named Allen or Mahomes and were sub .500 team behind OL. Joe Burrow with no scrambling ability is a dead man walking behind this abomination of a OL Let's address the real reason we're not a top team anymore.. Where Boogie Basham, Cody Ford, Zack Moss and AJ Epenesa at? How's Kair Elam, Terrell Bernard, Spencer Brown and Ed Oliver doing? It's easy to hate the guy turning a 2-14 roster into a playoff contender but this fall from grace isn't on him. I appreciate what we have because the grass sure as **** isn't greener on the other side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsGuy82 Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 Allen isn't on his rookie contract anymore. You can't consistently wiff on high picks with Your franchise QB making top 10 money.. Fix the OL and you fix Josh Allen, that I promise you.. Mitch Morse and Dion Dawkins are getting paid in the upper echelon for their positions and our return has been mediocrity but yea let's blame Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsGuy82 Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 10 hours ago, notthatbluestuff said: Soft? This dude carried us to the post season with a sprained UCL in his throwing elbow.. Reckless sure, dumb decisions I get it, but soft Gtfo.. He's far from soft my man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 21 minutes ago, BillsGuy82 said: What absolutely blows my mind is the hate Allen getting.. Over the last 2 seasons Allen operates off 50% of the playbook because our OL cannot open holes for a ground game and JA doesn't have enough time to let intermediate and deep routes develop consistently. You plug in any QB not named Allen or Mahomes and were sub .500 team behind OL. Joe Burrow with no scrambling ability is a dead man walking behind this abomination of a OL Let's address the real reason we're not a top team anymore.. Where Boogie Basham, Cody Ford, Zack Moss and AJ Epenesa at? How's Kair Elam, Terrell Bernard, Spencer Brown and Ed Oliver doing? It's easy to hate the guy turning a 2-14 roster into a playoff contender but this fall from grace isn't on him. I appreciate what we have because the grass sure as **** isn't greener on the other side It isn't really hate. No one is saying Allen is bad, or that he's even close to the biggest issue with the Bills as a whole (though it is absolutely fair to argue he was the biggest issue on Sunday.) I would guess that virtually everyone criticizing him would still very comfortably have him as a top 5 QB in the NFL, with an argument for best behind Mahomes. But being great doesn't mean being beyond criticism, or not still having flaws. Travis Kelce is one of the greatest TEs ever, and he's a very mid blocker. He knows it and owns it, he's worth it despite that. Terrell Owens dropped way too many passes for how great he was at WR. Brett Favre led the league in INTs like 3 or 4 times. These are still great players, but they have flaws and are not above criticism for them. The league has adjusted to these cheat code athletic QBs by not allowing teams to beat them over the top anymore. That adjustment started happening 2 or 3 years ago, honestly. Mahomes adjusted aggressively. He has one of the low average depth of targets around the league nowadays, and if he was still throwing bombs and gunning for the deep play all day like he did back in like 2018, we wouldn't have won the superbowl last year. Allen is still trying to go for the big play against defenses that expect it, and he does need to adjust, and he does deserve to be criticized for it. All he needed to do to secure a win on Sunday was not **** it up. He chose to **** it up. Of course he's going to get criticized for it. Do the Bills need to draft better around him? Absolutely. I've been posting about this for a year or two now, that if anything closes the window on Buffalo, it's going to be that. They haven't done well restocking talent, and there should be more around Allen than there currently is if they had even had average drafts these past few years. But that doesn't mean Allen should not still be criticized for his mistakes. Especially if he wants to up there with Mahomes and Burrow, and the Bills wants to be up there with the Chiefs and Eagles and Bengals. Also, fully disagree on your point about Burrow. We've seen Burrow with an absolute trash OL. He was still fantastic. Takes too many sacks, for sure, but we've seen him thrive with terrible protection already. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 I was ready to crown this guy and now I'm very much in a different direction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsGuy82 Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Jakuvious said: It isn't really hate. No one is saying Allen is bad, or that he's even close to the biggest issue with the Bills as a whole (though it is absolutely fair to argue he was the biggest issue on Sunday.) I would guess that virtually everyone criticizing him would still very comfortably have him as a top 5 QB in the NFL, with an argument for best behind Mahomes. But being great doesn't mean being beyond criticism, or not still having flaws. Travis Kelce is one of the greatest TEs ever, and he's a very mid blocker. He knows it and owns it, he's worth it despite that. Terrell Owens dropped way too many passes for how great he was at WR. Brett Favre led the league in INTs like 3 or 4 times. These are still great players, but they have flaws and are not above criticism for them. The league has adjusted to these cheat code athletic QBs by not allowing teams to beat them over the top anymore. That adjustment started happening 2 or 3 years ago, honestly. Mahomes adjusted aggressively. He has one of the low average depth of targets around the league nowadays, and if he was still throwing bombs and gunning for the deep play all day like he did back in like 2018, we wouldn't have won the superbowl last year. Allen is still trying to go for the big play against defenses that expect it, and he does need to adjust, and he does deserve to be criticized for it. All he needed to do to secure a win on Sunday was not **** it up. He chose to **** it up. Of course he's going to get criticized for it. Do the Bills need to draft better around him? Absolutely. I've been posting about this for a year or two now, that if anything closes the window on Buffalo, it's going to be that. They haven't done well restocking talent, and there should be more around Allen than there currently is if they had even had average drafts these past few years. But that doesn't mean Allen should not still be criticized for his mistakes. Especially if he wants to up there with Mahomes and Burrow, and the Bills wants to be up there with the Chiefs and Eagles and Bengals. Also, fully disagree on your point about Burrow. We've seen Burrow with an absolute trash OL. He was still fantastic. Takes too many sacks, for sure, but we've seen him thrive with terrible protection already. Trash OL don't provide multiple (3) 1000 yard seasons for Joe Mixon.. A running game adds another dimension to their attack.. You take away Josh Allen's scrambling ability and we simply don't have a ground game. So I fully disagree on that statement for one Secondly, if you look back over the final few games last season and Monday Night collapse you'll notice a second half common denominator which is halftime adjustments being made by opposing defenses. The predictability that is a by product of no run game and sub par pass pro has become a glaring issue. A problem that we're having is figuring out how to keep defenses honest on the check downs and underneath routes we go to the well on in first half of games. Again this is a by product of the ineptness of our OL. It's almost a lose/lose situation where we're gonna have to live and die with hero ball.. Mahomes has the hogs upfront to prevent this with PB caliber OL year in and year out Considering the ineptness of our scouting department. I think we should be on the phone with Arizona for DJ Humphries at the cost of draft equity. We would literally be upgrading two positions in one move kicking Dawkins to RT or LG Edited September 14, 2023 by BillsGuy82 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 9 minutes ago, BillsGuy82 said: Trash OL don't provide multiple (3) 1000 yard seasons for Joe Mixon.. A running game adds another dimension to their attack.. You take away Josh Allen's scrambling ability and we simply don't have a ground game. So I fully disagree on that statement for one Secondly, if you look back over the final few games last season and Monday Night collapse you'll notice a second half common denominator which is halftime adjustments being made by opposing defenses. The predictability that is a by product of no run game and sub par pass pro has become a glaring issue. A problem that we're having is figuring out how to keep defenses honest on the check downs and underneath routes we go to the well on in first half of games. Again this is a by product of the ineptness of our OL. It's almost a lose/lose situation where we're gonna have to live and die with hero ball.. Mahomes has the hogs upfront to prevent this with PB caliber OL year in and year out Considering the ineptness of our scouting department. I think we should be on the phone with Arizona for DJ Humphries at the cost of draft equity Mixon has only had 1 1000 yard season since Burrow entered the league. And he had 292 carries that year. Any NFL RB behind any NFL OL is going to get 1000 yards on 292 carries. Singletary got over 800 yards last year on 115 less carries. If you genuinely don't think Burrow has had bad OLs through most of his career, there's not much to really discuss here. That's been the most known issue with Cincy's roster the past few years. And I'm sorry, but you're not going to convince me that bad OL is the reason that Allen is yolo'ing the ball deep downfield. That just...doesn't track? There were checkdowns open on at least two of the INTs, too. He can even just throw it away. Doesn't matter the play call, he can do that regardless. It is a choice he is making. The OL and coaches are not forcing that to happen. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsGuy82 Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Jakuvious said: Mixon has only had 1 1000 yard season since Burrow entered the league. And he had 292 carries that year. Any NFL RB behind any NFL OL is going to get 1000 yards on 292 carries. Singletary got over 800 yards last year on 115 less carries. If you genuinely don't think Burrow has had bad OLs through most of his career, there's not much to really discuss here. That's been the most known issue with Cincy's roster the past few years. And I'm sorry, but you're not going to convince me that bad OL is the reason that Allen is yolo'ing the ball deep downfield. That just...doesn't track? There were checkdowns open on at least two of the INTs, too. He can even just throw it away. Doesn't matter the play call, he can do that regardless. It is a choice he is making. The OL and coaches are not forcing that to happen. He got hurt after a solid start as well so the YPC is on point. And it was literally the same OL the year before Burrows where Mixon went over 1000 lol.. What's one season with Burrow have to do with Mixon going 1000 with the exact same OL the year before with Dalton? Just a dumb statement. I don't need to convince you. I watch every Bills game over the last 2 decades, you don't.. I can call a spade a spade. Does Allen make mistakes, absolutely. Do I get the reasoning why he tries to press down field into sometimes double coverage again absolutely and that is the disconnect we're having. What's your justification on us not moving the ball in second half on the drives where he didn't throw an INT? Edited September 14, 2023 by BillsGuy82 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsGuy82 Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 14 minutes ago, Jakuvious said: Mixon has only had 1 1000 yard season since Burrow entered the league. And he had 292 carries that year. Any NFL RB behind any NFL OL is going to get 1000 yards on 292 carries. Singletary got over 800 yards last year on 115 less carries. If you genuinely don't think Burrow has had bad OLs through most of his career, there's not much to really discuss here. That's been the most known issue with Cincy's roster the past few years. And I'm sorry, but you're not going to convince me that bad OL is the reason that Allen is yolo'ing the ball deep downfield. That just...doesn't track? There were checkdowns open on at least two of the INTs, too. He can even just throw it away. Doesn't matter the play call, he can do that regardless. It is a choice he is making. The OL and coaches are not forcing that to happen. Another thing only one INT led to good field position. So it's not like Jets were starting in our territory either. Two of the INT were basically punts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 (edited) Did I just read someone try to pimp Joe Burrow’s OL for his career? LOL ”Joe Burrow wouldn’t do **** behind an OL this bad, running for his life” “But Joe’s played behind a worse line for years, statistically fact.” ”That’s not true because Mixon ran for 1,000 yards” ”But Singletary ran for nearly the same yardage on 100+ less carries, and even then Burrow’s line has been much worse in pass protection” ”That doesn’t count because I’ve watched every Bills game” Edited September 14, 2023 by Soko 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Soko said: Did I just read someone try to pimp Joe Burrow’s OL for his career? LOL I had to double take that as well. 1 hour ago, Soko said: That’s not true because Mixon ran for 1,000 yards This made me chuckle as well. Run blocking and pass protection are two *completely* different things as an OL. Even then, Mixon doesn’t exactly have a great YPC, he’s not getting much when they run the ball. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 37 minutes ago, ET80 said: I had to double take that as well. This made me chuckle as well. Run blocking and pass protection are two *completely* different things as an OL. Even then, Mixon doesn’t exactly have a great YPC, he’s not getting much when they run the ball. Looking back: also called the interceptions basically long punts. How often do you see teams punt on 2nd down in field goal range? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notthatbluestuff Posted September 14, 2023 Author Share Posted September 14, 2023 "Allen is great but he isn't beyond criticism." "Yes he is." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, Jakuvious said: I would guess that virtually everyone criticizing him would still very comfortably have him as a top 5 QB in the NFL, with an argument for best behind Mahomes. You're thinking rationally. Do you think the author of this tweet has that position though? lol Edited September 14, 2023 by Soggust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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