MaddHatter Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northland Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 2 hours ago, MaddHatter said: 5.07 in the 40. That's nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas94Ware Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 14 hours ago, plan9misfit said: It would depend on where those two second round picks were and what o-linemen were still available, TBH. If you told me that I could land (as an example) WR Troy Franklin or Xavier Worthy, LB Junior Colson, and OT Troy Fautanu or Jordan Morgan, then I’d be hard pressed to turn that down. Having an opportunity to land a third quality starter in the first two rounds would be huge. It would then allow us to focus on RB in the 3rd round, where a guy like Braelon Allen or Trey Benson may be available. Hard to be sure of anything when you trade down that far, though. You could trade down from 24 to like, 38, and all those guys you named or whoever they favor could be available. And then all of them gone by 38. I'm usually in favor of trading back when there are multiple good fits and solid prospects available that fit the system, answer a need and are quality talents. But in a draft year where adding a quality player right now is a must (given contract situations at QB, with Parsons, with Lamb and in a roundabout way, MM) I'd really hope they trade UP and not down. This team is set to win it all right now. There's a few roster holes and upgrades the team could sorely use, and this free agent period and draft are going to be vital to make that come true. If it falls flat, you're talking about a major reset upcoming. A major reset that features at least two and potentially three guys all ripe to completely rewrite the salary cap and the markets at their position. Before that happens, now is the time to break the bank with a great FA add and score big in the draft. While adding an extra potential starter in the second round could indeed be a big score in the draft, it comes with a greater risk than trading up for the guy you want. Because you then run the risk of missing out on all of the guys you favored in that range. Then you likely move forward with a very stressful cap situation when you dole out the big deals to Parsons, Lamb and potentially (but hopefully not) Dak. It's do or die for this team right now. And if Jerry is all in on this year like he said (which could mean anything, really) then it's time to make the moves that really push all your chips in and give this team the best chance they've truly had since 2014 or 2016 at winning it all. If Jerry blows it by not adding a key player or two, and or trades back too far and misses out on all they key fits in that range and has to settle for another Schoonmaker and Kelvin Joseph in round 2, you may as well have just traded off Dak and went into the year ready to see what the future holds. At least we would go into the following off-season with a major question answered. That question being...what is Trey Lance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 4 hours ago, MaddHatter said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas94Ware Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 10 hours ago, MaddHatter said: I thought McCarthy looked quite poor today and his film supports that. He is a project QB for sure who really struggles on out routes. Well as I've made known, my track record on QB projections is far lower than it is at other positions. Which really follows the trend of pretty much every NFL team honestly... But. That said .... Being a project isn't a bad thing when you are going to a great situation. Payton is a hell of a coach and an even better offensive mind. This is the guy who turned Quincy Carter into a plausible option at QB, where he was at least efficient enough to allow that defense to carry the team into a playoff berth they rightly did not deserve obtaining. His offenses are never from a mold. He sculpts them every year for his current personnel and puts the players in a position to be the best versions of themselves that they can be. And Denver. The team itself. Is actually not so much of a lack luster roster as it is an underachieving one. And they have a new ownership situation that seems quite willing to pay for the guys they need. And also seem quite willing to allow the football minds in the front office and on the sidelines to make the decisions. They also have a consummate professional and true veteran of the sport who's played on the biggest stage there already to both set an example for a young QB, and despite recent struggles, still likely perform well enough to keep the young QB from having to step in too soon and stunt his growth. Great situation. Which definitely makes Denver a good situation for a young quarterback. Especially one who really does have some blessings and gifts to build upon. I get his stature is not ideal. And that having leaned on defense, checkdowns, and simpler route combinations (as well as a running game) doesn't exactly make it easy for him to jump head first into the pro game. He does however, have a very natural set of gifts in how he throws that ball, and then also how he delivers it so accurately on the move. Both of those translate well to the pro game. Given the right situation, which as I explained above that I feel Denver is a great situation for a young QB, I think any QB wouldmbe lucky to be selected there. Which makes McCarthy, even if he is a project as you've said, still have a great opportunity to develop and succeed there. Outside of the McCarthy-Denver connection. Maybe I am missing something. But why are you and @plan9misfit so adamant about McCarthy not being a good prospect for a round 1 QB? I did mention above how he relied heavy on everything around him more than you'd like to see when gauging a QBs potential transition to the next level. And I do understand his stature doesn't exactly look like it's built for professional football. Also, that his "arm strength" (I hate that term for it because it makes it sound like he just needs to lift more weights, when in reality, there's so much more to how hard or far someone can throw a football than just how strong they are) may not be on the level as some of the other guys in this draft. But all of those are things you can work around or work with; you can move the pocket like Payton did with Brees, to keep the passing lanes from being shielded due to his height. You can protect him by running a lot of two tight end formations and keeping one in to protect. You can run more passing routes designed to create openings at specific timing intervals so he doesn't have to laser beam a ball between two defenders. You can run an offense that favors short passing and let the weapons do the work so he can continue to rely on those around him. In fact, these were all things Payton did with Brees at varying times in his career, as he grew older and struggled more with velocity and injury, and moved the pocket for Brees very often when he was young. And that's really just one example...as I mean, even Chad The Geek Pennington performed quite effectively once he had a coach that played to his strengths to mask the fact that his shoulder surgeries had great diminished how hard or far he could throw. When he retired, he even had the NFL record for the I think it was the highest TD:INT ratio while in the RedZone... Or maybe it was highest completion % in the RedZone? Something like that. Either way I'm sure that record is broken now as the NFL has changed so much As usual I'm rambling on, saying all of that just to say and ask, McCarthys shortcomings have still made successful QBs in the NFL in the past. One of best comparisons in those shortcomings is Brees, who slid to round 2 of the draft for pretty much all of the same concerns. And he set records being coached by the same coach McCarthy is now being connected to. So...why do you guys both seem so sure he is not as good of a candidate as he is being evaluated out to be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardHawk Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 14 minutes ago, MaddHatter said: Experience may be the only thing that gets Mims out of top 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 9 minutes ago, WizardHawk said: Experience may be the only thing that gets Mims out of top 20. And Medicals but the GMs know that way better than anyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 27 minutes ago, Dallas94Ware said: Well as I've made known, my track record on QB projections is far lower than it is at other positions. Which really follows the trend of pretty much every NFL team honestly... But. That said .... Being a project isn't a bad thing when you are going to a great situation. Payton is a hell of a coach and an even better offensive mind. This is the guy who turned Quincy Carter into a plausible option at QB, where he was at least efficient enough to allow that defense to carry the team into a playoff berth they rightly did not deserve obtaining. His offenses are never from a mold. He sculpts them every year for his current personnel and puts the players in a position to be the best versions of themselves that they can be. And Denver. The team itself. Is actually not so much of a lack luster roster as it is an underachieving one. And they have a new ownership situation that seems quite willing to pay for the guys they need. And also seem quite willing to allow the football minds in the front office and on the sidelines to make the decisions. They also have a consummate professional and true veteran of the sport who's played on the biggest stage there already to both set an example for a young QB, and despite recent struggles, still likely perform well enough to keep the young QB from having to step in too soon and stunt his growth. Great situation. Which definitely makes Denver a good situation for a young quarterback. Especially one who really does have some blessings and gifts to build upon. I get his stature is not ideal. And that having leaned on defense, checkdowns, and simpler route combinations (as well as a running game) doesn't exactly make it easy for him to jump head first into the pro game. He does however, have a very natural set of gifts in how he throws that ball, and then also how he delivers it so accurately on the move. Both of those translate well to the pro game. Given the right situation, which as I explained above that I feel Denver is a great situation for a young QB, I think any QB wouldmbe lucky to be selected there. Which makes McCarthy, even if he is a project as you've said, still have a great opportunity to develop and succeed there. Outside of the McCarthy-Denver connection. Maybe I am missing something. But why are you and @plan9misfit so adamant about McCarthy not being a good prospect for a round 1 QB? I did mention above how he relied heavy on everything around him more than you'd like to see when gauging a QBs potential transition to the next level. And I do understand his stature doesn't exactly look like it's built for professional football. Also, that his "arm strength" (I hate that term for it because it makes it sound like he just needs to lift more weights, when in reality, there's so much more to how hard or far someone can throw a football than just how strong they are) may not be on the level as some of the other guys in this draft. But all of those are things you can work around or work with; you can move the pocket like Payton did with Brees, to keep the passing lanes from being shielded due to his height. You can protect him by running a lot of two tight end formations and keeping one in to protect. You can run more passing routes designed to create openings at specific timing intervals so he doesn't have to laser beam a ball between two defenders. You can run an offense that favors short passing and let the weapons do the work so he can continue to rely on those around him. In fact, these were all things Payton did with Brees at varying times in his career, as he grew older and struggled more with velocity and injury, and moved the pocket for Brees very often when he was young. And that's really just one example...as I mean, even Chad The Geek Pennington performed quite effectively once he had a coach that played to his strengths to mask the fact that his shoulder surgeries had great diminished how hard or far he could throw. When he retired, he even had the NFL record for the I think it was the highest TD:INT ratio while in the RedZone... Or maybe it was highest completion % in the RedZone? Something like that. Either way I'm sure that record is broken now as the NFL has changed so much As usual I'm rambling on, saying all of that just to say and ask, McCarthys shortcomings have still made successful QBs in the NFL in the past. One of best comparisons in those shortcomings is Brees, who slid to round 2 of the draft for pretty much all of the same concerns. And he set records being coached by the same coach McCarthy is now being connected to. So...why do you guys both seem so sure he is not as good of a candidate as he is being evaluated out to be? I’m not drafting any QB in this years class or next. I’m extending Dak and riding him for atleast 5 more years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextyearfordaboyz Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 1 hour ago, WizardHawk said: Experience may be the only thing that gets Mims out of top 20. That’s not happening. What a dream for Dallas, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D82 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 11 hours ago, MaddHatter said: Givin' me some Mark Stepnoski vibes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 1 minute ago, D82 said: Givin' me some Mark Stepnoski vibes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardHawk Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 13 hours ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said: That’s not happening. What a dream for Dallas, though. Yeah, I don’t see it happening either. I’ve pretty much written off any chances on Fautanu, Mims and to a lesser degree JPJ. Thankfully the OL depth in this class is nuts. Can’t think of another that is even remotely close in potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardHawk Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 11 hours ago, MaddHatter said: Dallas loves Wisconsin centers too. Seems like a perfect match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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