Would you rather..

[beardown3231]

1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said:

Bears fans with overly inflated and completely unrealistic expectations? No Way, not this fanbase

I think after 3 years hoping for a big jump isn't unrealistic, although in hindsight, it seems like even the slightest bit of jumps was unrealistic. You are right, however, that this fanbase sucks

[Bowler1215]

I picked 1, with my luck 2 will happen.  Fields gets into 'I need to do too much' mode and the turnovers happen.  Also, he needs to throw the damn ball!!  Our WR core looks good(on paper)   Look at our first drive.  6 plays, 75 yards and a TD.  Fields looked great.  He had a couple good plays here and there after that, but often he looked lost.  If he doesn't improve, we'll need to get one of the top QBs in next years draft.  I'm guessing Fields will have a few good to great games and we'll pick between 6-10.  Hopefully Carolina can give us the #1 overall pick. 

[Bowler1215]

I picked 1, with my luck 2 will happen.  Fields gets into 'I need to do too much' mode and the turnovers happen.  Also, he needs to throw the damn ball!!  Our WR core looks good(on paper)   Look at our first drive.  6 plays, 75 yards and a TD.  Fields looked great.  He had a couple good plays here and there after that, but often he looked lost.  If he doesn't improve, we'll need to get one of the top QBs in next years draft.  I'm guessing Fields will have a few good to great games and we'll pick between 6-10.  Hopefully Carolina can give us the #1 overall pick. 

[StLunatic88]

59 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

I think after 3 years hoping for a big jump isn't unrealistic, although in hindsight, it seems like even the slightest bit of jumps was unrealistic. You are right, however, that this fanbase sucks

He was a complete project coming out of college, feels like a bunch of you disregard that fact. It’s the reason he fell to where he did. But his tools were mouth watering (they still are, even though some around here would have you believe he’s Benjamin Buntoned back to Pop Warner) 

There is zero, I repeat ZERO debate; if you have the chance at Caleb Williams, you take him. Heck, if it’s in reach (tank/trade whatever) you make every attempt for him. And figure out the Fields stuff later

[dll2000]

If Kyle Shanahan were our coach we would know if Fields was good or not by now.

I think he would be.  

If not though, Bagent would probably be a budding Purdy+ right about now.

As it is history may record both Fields and Bagent as never weres.

I wonder what first time HC or OC will next lead the franchise or offense?

 

[Sugashane]

15 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

He was a complete project coming out of college, feels like a bunch of you disregard that fact. It’s the reason he fell to where he did. But his tools were mouth watering (they still are, even though some around here would have you believe he’s Benjamin Buntoned back to Pop Warner) 

There is zero, I repeat ZERO debate; if you have the chance at Caleb Williams, you take him. Heck, if it’s in reach (tank/trade whatever) you make every attempt for him. And figure out the Fields stuff later

He definitely was. He was Richardson who showed he could pass it all over the field, but the Bears did what they do and botched him magnificently. I fully supported Poles tanking last year after the draft and trades were done, but had a lot of issues with being so conservative on building the OL up. I said I wanted him to focus everything on offense and let the defense rot for all I cared, do everything to try and develop Fields. Clearly that didn't happen. BUT, if the offense performs as poorly after 4-5 weeks and Poles doesn't force Getsy out then I am completely at ease with Warren dropping him too. 

I know it is pure head-cannon and has no evidence backing it, but part of me wonders if Warren and Poles are tanking intentionally and scapegoating Fields, Eberflus, and Getsy to do it. Warren stealing USC and UCLA just makes him the perfect villain to me   lol 

 

34 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

If Kyle Shanahan were our coach we would know if Fields was good or not by now.

I think he would be.  

If not though, Bagent would probably be a budding Purdy+ right about now.

As it is history may record both Fields and Bagent as never weres.

I wonder what first time HC or OC will next lead the franchise or offense?

 

 

I think Fields 100% would be. To be honest I would probably trade the #1 overall pick for Shanahan straight up. Probably sounds blasphemous but I'm just so desperate for a good offensive head coach. 

Oof. I still think Purdy was an aberration more than just coaching. Plus when you are paying a 7th round pick salary for your starting QB you can really stack the team. Don't get me involved in the Bagent hype though. lol

I have a list of coaches I am keeping up on but I figured it would be seen as too doom and gloom being so early in the year to make a threat on it. Eberflus is a good guy but I think he got overhyped and I did NOT want a defensive HC. Mayo and Ryans are two guys I like a lot but still wouldn't have wanted them to be the HC here. 

[dll2000]

3 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

He definitely was. He was Richardson who showed he could pass it all over the field, but the Bears did what they do and botched him magnificently. I fully supported Poles tanking last year after the draft and trades were done, but had a lot of issues with being so conservative on building the OL up. I said I wanted him to focus everything on offense and let the defense rot for all I cared, do everything to try and develop Fields. Clearly that didn't happen. BUT, if the offense performs as poorly after 4-5 weeks and Poles doesn't force Getsy out then I am completely at ease with Warren dropping him too. 

I know it is pure head-cannon and has no evidence backing it, but part of me wonders if Warren and Poles are tanking intentionally and scapegoating Fields, Eberflus, and Getsy to do it. Warren stealing USC and UCLA just makes him the perfect villain to me   lol 

 

 

I think Fields 100% would be. To be honest I would probably trade the #1 overall pick for Shanahan straight up. Probably sounds blasphemous but I'm just so desperate for a good offensive head coach. 

Oof. I still think Purdy was an aberration more than just coaching. Plus when you are paying a 7th round pick salary for your starting QB you can really stack the team. Don't get me involved in the Bagent hype though. lol

I have a list of coaches I am keeping up on but I figured it would be seen as too doom and gloom being so early in the year to make a threat on it. Eberflus is a good guy but I think he got overhyped and I did NOT want a defensive HC. Mayo and Ryans are two guys I like a lot but still wouldn't have wanted them to be the HC here. 

See I think the NFL QB position requires a minimum athletic standard - but once that is met the rest is between the ears and also developed with proper coaching.

I think A LOT of guys that never weres could have succeeded in right situation with right coach.   And a lot of super stars would have been never weres had they been put in different situations.

I think Peyton Manning is rare case of a guy who would have succeeded anywhere at anytime - because he was essentially his own coach or would have sought out good coaching (and did).

I think Bagent meets that minimum athletic standard.   If you invested time and resources into him - I think he would have a good chance at success in a few years.   But being a back up rarely gives you the resources.   

Success for most QBs requires you pretty much have to be a first round pick AND have a good coaching situation and talent around you.   Brady, Cousins, Jimmy G., Purdy, etc. are exceptions - but notice two sets of those guys came from same coach.   They do things differently.   They actually develop back ups.   

I think Mahomes is most gifted QB ever.   But I question whether he would have succeeded had he been drafted by Bears.

I think the elder Carr could have succeeded in the league had he been drafted by a different org.

 

[Sugashane]

4 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

See I think the NFL QB position requires a minimum athletic standard - but once that is met the rest is between the ears and also developed with proper coaching.

I think A LOT of guys that never weres could have succeeded in right situation with right coach.   And a lot of super stars would have been never weres had they been put in different situations.

Definitely. Tru could never have been Mahomes but if they were switch Mahomes would be way better than Tru was for us and Tru would have been much better under Reid IMO.  

4 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I think Peyton Manning is rare case of a guy who would have succeeded anywhere at anytime - because he was essentially his own coach or would have sought out good coaching (and did).

Agreed. Him, Rodgers, a few others I think could outside of a Carr/Texans situation. Any player can be broken IMO. 

4 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I think Bagent meets that minimum athletic standard.   If you invested time and resources into him - I think he would have a good chance at success in a few years.   But being a back up rarely gives you the resources.   

I think if he develops into a decent back up he is a major win. I'm skeptical he can be more than that but he should be able to pressure your starting guy. I believe Walsh, everyone needs to have competition. If you can't win competition on your team you can't win it for your team in games. 

4 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Success for most QBs requires you pretty much have to be a first round pick AND have a good coaching situation and talent around you.   Brady, Cousins, Jimmy G., Purdy, etc. are exceptions - but notice two sets of those guys came from same coach.   They do things differently.   They actually develop back ups.   

And they should. At worse you get a chance to protect your season if your starter goes down for 4-5 weeks, at best you turn it around for am earlier pick or even a successor.

I'm a firm believer that the back ups should be running scout team offense for the starting defense, and that should be a big part of his development. It is a test for themm not only to drive on the tendencies of the QB they're emulating but also if they make a read that might break tendencies, break it. I'd rather a schematic issue be exposed in practice rather than on Sunday.

Also there are ways to do drills with multiple QBs. I went to a D-III school and we had the staff do do it so I don't see why the NFL should struggle for it. Yes, the top guy is getting the gameplan reps in season but there is a TON of time the reserves can work in groups for individual drills. I don't know why dropbacks, technique drills, and such would ever be looked at as too "inconvenient" for a staff to work thorugh. 

4 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I think Mahomes is most gifted QB ever.   But I question whether he would have succeeded had he been drafted by Bears.

I think the elder Carr could have succeeded in the league had he been drafted by a different org.

Would he be the Mahomes we see? No. But I 100% believe the Bears win the 2018 Super Bowl. He's be a god in Chicago, but not looking at being the GOAT potentially. Nagy/Pace would be entrenched and neither is at the level of Reid or Veach/Dorsey. 

Carr was immensely talented and ruined. Sucks to see but to a lesser degree the Bears have basically done it with Tru (who was never as talented as Carr) and Fields (who is much closer to Carr's talent but more physically gifted still). If he ended up in San Diego with Marty Schottenheimer/Turner then he is a multiple time All Pro. I'm glad Culpepper didn't get packaged in a trade for the top pick because with Moss and then later having AP he would have been a damn handful. 

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

See I think the NFL QB position requires a minimum athletic standard - but once that is met the rest is between the ears and also developed with proper coaching.

I think A LOT of guys that never weres could have succeeded in right situation with right coach.   And a lot of super stars would have been never weres had they been put in different situations.

I think Peyton Manning is rare case of a guy who would have succeeded anywhere at anytime - because he was essentially his own coach or would have sought out good coaching (and did).

I think Bagent meets that minimum athletic standard.   If you invested time and resources into him - I think he would have a good chance at success in a few years.   But being a back up rarely gives you the resources.   

Success for most QBs requires you pretty much have to be a first round pick AND have a good coaching situation and talent around you.   Brady, Cousins, Jimmy G., Purdy, etc. are exceptions - but notice two sets of those guys came from same coach.   They do things differently.   They actually develop back ups.   

I think Mahomes is most gifted QB ever.   But I question whether he would have succeeded had he been drafted by Bears.

I think the elder Carr could have succeeded in the league had he been drafted by a different org.

 

This is a realistic and crisp assessment of the position as a whole, and Chicago's putrid corner of it.  

Context and situation probably ruin a number of QBs every year, and they are an exceedingly scarce resource. I think the Bears (again) may be making an excellent lesson here for other teams not to follow.  It truly wouldn't surprise me if around the 2025 draft people are pointing out bad landing spots for a QB and referencing how weird it was that the Bears still had Nagy and Pace picking their QB, and then an unproven OC and defensive HC to develop him, and how it went. 

The root of our current problems lie in 2021, when seemingly the whole world knew Pace and Nagy were not working, but George kept them anyway, and then stutter-stepped into Justin Fields. The second you have a HC and GM trying to keep their jobs and a QB that needs to develop you're starting with a built in failure point. The plan for 2022 was incoherent from George on down.  It seems pretty clear that Poles didn't care one way or the other about Fields, but why on earth would George have hired him if he was honest about that?  Truly bizarre decision making followed by more, when Poles seemingly switched it up mideseason and _tried_ to get him a WR and that poor decision and assessment led to Claypool.  Now we have an offensive scheme that seems designed for our QB's polar opposite, and a decision looming on both QB and staff that's likely a thumbs down on both.  The hope here is if things go off the rails completely (feels like it) that George can make the hard (not that hard) decision.  I hope having to pay two coaches and two GMs at the same time is a future reminder not to be a sap for him. 

As for Bagent, it's a very very plausible scenario in which Fields gets benched, Bagent wins a surprised game with the backup bounce, and then comes back to earth.  This will be accompanied by absolutely awful fan takes and might mark yet another low for fans of this team.