turtle28 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 21 hours ago, e16bball said: Maybe it’s just a phrasing thing and I’m being too literal because I’m accustomed to “tools” meaning “abilities.” But this feels like an odd thing to say. What “tool(s)” do you feel Maye and Daniels lack? Or even Bo Nix & JJ McCarthy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 2 minutes ago, turtle28 said: I think Drake Maye, Jayden Daniels & even Bo Nix & JJ McCarthy have the tools to be a franchise QB, the question is can they improve on their flaws & become more consistent in their play to get there? They all 4 have strong arms, are athletic, and have good heads on their shoulders. They just have to become more consistent in their decision-making, with their mechanics and working from the pocket with their pocket presence & reads to get there. It's possible at least a few out of those 4 get there. I think Penix tops out as an average starter at best. Every year the QB position, and by proxy, the QB prospects get overrated and overvalued. This year is no different. None of the prospects do anything significantly better than the others this year, or in years past. There is a very strong likelihood that only one or fewer of the QB prospects pan out. Caleb Williams appears to be the best suited to succeed in the NFL talent-wise, but as we have seen throughout history, talent doesn't always equate to success. In my opinion, Caleb Williams is the only QB worth taking early and I absolutely would not trade up for him. Other QBs will most likely go very early in the 1st and most will end up like Sam Bradford, Johnny Manzel, Zach Wilson, Sam Darnold, etc. as QBs that were drafted too high and flamed out. Again, I am not saying I will boycott the team, new FO or owners if they draft or even trade up for a QB. I am however saying that if they go that route, and it doesn't work, I will look back at what could have been, like I do almost every draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Starting to watch some Xavier Leggette. Dude is a beast. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSkinGM Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 16 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Or even Bo Nix & JJ McCarthy? BoNix has been criticized for his footwork. Also has trouble coming off his first read Falls away from throws ( sounds like T H ) Dude sure put up some numbers last year though ! I wouldn't mind taking MH Jr or a tradedown and grab him later . I just don't like the QBs at #2 overall. They seem a reach- I know they are QB s ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 17 hours ago, ripsean21 said: I’m just quoting this so I don’t have too go back. And I get it as fans were tired. I get all the points. We’re here just do it. We got blessed with this pick. Could be but we’ve had the number 2 overall pick like 5 times in my life and we’ve swung and missed huge every single time!!! If we had the top pick and could legit pick between all 3 I’d say hell yeah. But how many times does the top team miss and the second team end up bust? For all the Peters and Lance talk we’re talking about 3 of the top 3 picks how much better are the odds of 2/3 busting? I’m sure the odds are just worse and worse. I get it as a fan. But I’m not looking at this as a fan. I’m looking at it like I have grades and a ton of time watching these guys. You think that the Bears traded the top pick last year because they were sold on Young? So if they aren’t coming off 1 then you can bet the pick of the liter is being taken. So now your drafting the 10th best player if that in the draft at two. Again QB’s get pushed up but if you think Daniels or Maye are better players then ether top OT’s any of the top 5 WR’s maybe even more, Bowers, I can keep going. It’s not close. See we always do this. There are true super stars avalible and we’re gonna draft NEED!!! We just cried for 4 years for drafting this guy or that guy too high and our first year Ron being gone your preaching for it!!! Idc where experts grade. If you think Maye is the second best even top 10 player in this draft. It’s nuts. Daniels maybe is because his last years tape but his get hit rate says wait. There is a legit Jefferson level WR’s and there is a unicorn Gronk level TE!!! There is one legit blue chip Tyron,Trent, Sewell level OT!!! And you want frigen Daniel Jones/Trevor Lawrence Jax version it just baffles me. If this was a Brandon Schreff level draft hell yeah I’d overdraft my QB. This draft is full of franchise altering players up top and we’re falling for media push-up hype because they can’t explain seperation of QB ability and production over better players at other positions. I think the comparisons of Maye to Daniel Jones or even Mac Jones by Mueller are some of the silliest comparisons I've ever seen. Daniel Jones wasn't a first round talent and climbed the boards because of the Manning's. It was obvious what was going to happen with him and it played out exactly as most thought. He was a sub 60% passer who had one of the better QB coaches in David Cutcliffe and still did nothing at Duke. They're similar looking as people and that's about where the comparisons stop. Maye is so much better at this stage of his career than Jones ever was that its kinda silly to even make the comparison and the absurd Mac Jones comparison from Mueller was as bad a blunder of "I have never actually watched this guy" as Matt Miller last year comparing Howell's arm strength to Colt McCoys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted January 26 Author Share Posted January 26 1 hour ago, lavar703 said: Starting to watch some Xavier Leggette. Dude is a beast. He'll be a big combine riser for sure. Is your age/productivity thing limited to QBs though? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 4 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: He'll be a big combine riser for sure. Is your age/productivity thing limited to QBs though? More limited to QBs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 2 hours ago, Slappy Mc said: Every year the QB position, and by proxy, the QB prospects get overrated and overvalued. This year is no different. None of the prospects do anything significantly better than the others this year, or in years past. There is a very strong likelihood that only one or fewer of the QB prospects pan out. Caleb Williams appears to be the best suited to succeed in the NFL talent-wise, but as we have seen throughout history, talent doesn't always equate to success. In my opinion, Caleb Williams is the only QB worth taking early and I absolutely would not trade up for him. Other QBs will most likely go very early in the 1st and most will end up like Sam Bradford, Johnny Manzel, Zach Wilson, Sam Darnold, etc. as QBs that were drafted too high and flamed out. Again, I am not saying I will boycott the team, new FO or owners if they draft or even trade up for a QB. I am however saying that if they go that route, and it doesn't work, I will look back at what could have been, like I do almost every draft. Well there's no doubt that QB gets overvalued in every draft and it's true that most of them probably won't pan out to be anything more than backups but I think it's the wrong term to use when you say they don't have the “tools” or “skillset” necessary to be franchise QB bc if you go through the list of what you're looking for in a QB, the top 5 or 6 guys have that. Again, most will end up being backups like always, but this is a much stronger class than the last handful of classes just based off of natural talent and potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 12 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Well there's no doubt that QB gets overvalued in every draft and it's true that most of them probably won't pan out to be anything more than backups but I think it's the wrong term to use when you say they don't have the “tools” or “skillset” necessary to be franchise QB bc if you go through the list of what you're looking for in a QB, the top 5 or 6 guys have that. Again, most will end up being backups like always, but this is a much stronger class than the last handful of classes just based off of natural talent and potential. I just don't agree. I understand everyone's fascination, but this is not a strong QB class IMO. I don't see anything that separates any of the guys, not named Caleb Williams, from the Josh Rosens, Daniel Jones, Sam Darnolds or Zach Wilson's. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind and I don't expect anyone to change mine. I just hope we don't mortgage our future on any of these QBs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted January 26 Author Share Posted January 26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSkinGM Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 5 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: IF we draft a QB--I'm glad Peters will have a choice of ,,at least,,, TWO . We'll have to trust his judgement ! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARTMONK HOF Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 (edited) Ben has developed Goff and took him further than McVay did or could. Maye to me has better tools to work with and as long as he’s a willing participant he should be able to do the same with Drake. He’s not a perfect QB by no means but if we think Ben is the coach we believe he is he can help and improve Drakes weaknesses and make him the best QB for this team. It’s close between Drake and Jayden but i think he’s more of a well rounded QB. Edited January 26 by ARTMONK HOF 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 2 hours ago, MikeT14 said: I don’t understand the Jayden Daniels thing? 4 years of 40+ starts where he was mediocre and then one great season where a lot of those same warts were still there on a loaded offense and none of these guys are worried about this? Not to mention he’s rail thin. I’ll fully support him if they draft him but I expect it to end in disaster. We’ve gone this route before with a skinny QB who refused to slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARTMONK HOF Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 1 minute ago, lavar703 said: I don’t understand the Jayden Daniels thing? 4 years of 40+ starts where he was mediocre and then one great season where a lot of those same warts were still there on a loaded offense and none of these guys are worried about this? Not to mention he’s rail thin. I’ll fully support him if they draft him but I expect it to end in disaster. We’ve gone this route before with a skinny QB who refused to slide. Who the heck could you be talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 2 minutes ago, ARTMONK HOF said: Who the heck could you be talking about? Robert. And he was smallish and still looks way bigger than Daniels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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