topwop1 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 9 hours ago, SLCbear said: I've come around alot lately on possibility of Flus sticking around. I've gone from 1000% to as high as 60/40 I THINK Getsy is entirely in control of this Offense, scheme formations execution playcalling, all of it and wo being checked ! the scheme is either tooo complex or he has not taught it well enough OR he doesn't understand his QB That said, any endorsement for Getsy from Flus would/should be death nail in his own coffin. I can now see a scenario in which Flus stays, esp if they already have a proper OC successor in mind. Continuity is VERY very important. Flus is still in great danger though and probably should be let go for not checking Getsy, or getting rid of Getsy altogether. How involved is Flus in the offense ? Do we know ?? Did Flus and Poles entirely give reigns to Getsy after williams left ? I think so Flus gotta step in and put hammer down, demand POWER FOOTBALL ! heavy run and screen game to set up deep ball all throughout ! How are we still not doing this ??! My dilemma with the idea of Flus staying is what do you do at OC? I mean if you fire Getsy which worthy OC is going to want to step into a situation where Flus would be going into a lame duck year in 2024? That's why I think it's almost better to just keep the entire band together aka Flus, Getsy and Fields if that's the case Don't want Poles drafting a QB while keeping Flus and then hiring a potential new OC for one year with the possibility that the entire staff is let go the following year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, topwop1 said: My dilemma with the idea of Flus staying is what do you do at OC? I mean if you fire Getsy which worthy OC is going to want to step into a situation where Flus would be going into a lame duck year in 2024? That's why I think it's almost better to just keep the entire band together aka Flus, Getsy and Fields if that's the case Don't want Poles drafting a QB while keeping Flus and then hiring a potential new OC for one year with the possibility that the entire staff is let go the following year So the only way I can see a good name coming here would be if Moore gets fired along with Staley in LAC or poaching someone to be a first time playcaller who is under Shanahan or McDaniel. Like Griese in SF. Maybe Bienemy gets booted from WAS with Rivera? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, Sugashane said: So the only way I can see a good name coming here would be if Moore gets fired along with Staley in LAC or poaching someone to be a first time playcaller who is under Shanahan or McDaniel. Like Griese in SF. Maybe Bienemy gets booted from WAS with Rivera? It's possible but then Fields would have to learn a brand new offense again...just seems like that would be a backwards / low chance of working out kind of move The way I see it right now is there's two options. Run it back status quo with the same coaches / Fields or start over at both HC and QB. Of course a lot of this depends on what transpires the rest of the season and with which pick we end up with from Carolina. Top-2 pick and I think the decision for Poles is easy and he's moving on with his own guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 It's a nuanced and very stupid position the Bears find themselves in for sure. And it's both reasonable and terrible to find yourself (and I have) making the argument that "well, we're just going to fire these guys when they fail more, so why not keep them another year so the next guys can get their own QB?" and it's like Joseph Heller wrote the script for this team. It might be part laziness from not wanting to sort through all the ways to try and make this work, but I really do feel like starting fresh on everyone is best for, well, everyone. No one has shown enough to be a must-keep, but everyone has excuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 17 minutes ago, topwop1 said: It's possible but then Fields would have to learn a brand new offense again...just seems like that would be a backwards / low chance of working out kind of move The way I see it right now is there's two options. Run it back status quo with the same coaches / Fields or start over at both HC and QB. Of course a lot of this depends on what transpires the rest of the season and with which pick we end up with from Carolina. Top-2 pick and I think the decision for Poles is easy and he's moving on with his own guy I agree. I think those are the two beat options but realistically I don't believe Sanders or Ewers will be the prospect that either Maye or Williams are. Someone always pops up but I think this is essentially the Watson/Mahomes/Tru in 17 vs the Rosen/Darnold/Jackson in 18. Most years people always say "next year's class is better" but I argued against that in 17 and I'm doing it again for 24. At this point you're going to have to pry Williams or Maye from me if I can draft them, because guys like Murray are getting $46 mil, Jones got $40 mil, Carr got $37, and so on. I can't justify him getting a deal like that and taking away resources that he seems to need desperately. He will not do more with less imo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbear72 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 14 hours ago, chisoxguy7 said: Hey, don't call figlair that. 6 hours ago, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said: Leave Tugbear alone, Cbears019 is just salty he's named after that awful 19th Care Bear from the 80s that got recalled for being super creepy. Although if you find the stuffed animal or trading card it's worth a fortune on ebay if you're not worried about getting flagged. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 9 hours ago, topwop1 said: It's possible but then Fields would have to learn a brand new offense again...just seems like that would be a backwards / low chance of working out kind of move The way I see it right now is there's two options. Run it back status quo with the same coaches / Fields or start over at both HC and QB. Of course a lot of this depends on what transpires the rest of the season and with which pick we end up with from Carolina. Top-2 pick and I think the decision for Poles is easy and he's moving on with his own guy I think if they do move on it’ll be less about potential and more about timeline. All of Fields and the 2 rookies have massive potential. Just get it right. Whatever that is. For once. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskieBear Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 7 hours ago, Bigbear72 said: my gf and her friends got a reservation at Casa Bonita last night then came home and talked about how awesome it was. i've never been more upset at her for rubbing it in 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLCbear Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 13 hours ago, topwop1 said: My dilemma with the idea of Flus staying is what do you do at OC? I mean if you fire Getsy which worthy OC is going to want to step into a situation where Flus would be going into a lame duck year in 2024? That's why I think it's almost better to just keep the entire band together aka Flus, Getsy and Fields if that's the case Don't want Poles drafting a QB while keeping Flus and then hiring a potential new OC for one year with the possibility that the entire staff is let go the following year Getsy is keeping this thing broken, no WAY under any circumstances can he possibly remain. I want Harbaugh ! He will run the DAM ball, proper QB development AND play execution will be happening at highest level If Harbaugh isn't happening and Flus stays, Getsy is OUT and I don't think it will be hard at all to SIGnificantly upgrade OC. We need power RUNNING football (so formation blocking assignments perfect-execution) mix in short pass looks and then take deep shots optimal moments when D is sucking in ....ONE OF US COULD DO THIS haha There are plenty of good well known coaches AND under the radar coaches that TRULy believe in JF and know what he is ! AND can get the very best football (namely formations/execution) out the other 10 FOOTBALL PLAYERS ! Defenses can even know what's coming and still not be able to stop it ! we are just more athletic at QB and more dialed in/powerful upfront in run protection and have the weapons (dj mhjr/bb) to impose our will onto any defense ! A proper JF offense is rudimentary but precise machine ...we don't need an offensive qb guru passing genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLCbear Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 4 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: I think if they do move on it’ll be less about potential and more about timeline. All of Fields and the 2 rookies have massive potential. Just get it right. Whatever that is. For once. Wouldn't drafting CW and keeping JF at least one more year OPTIMIZE our chances of getting it right FINALLY ??! This will likely cost is MHj but we would still get BB to pair PERFECTLY w kmet for this offense !! JF next year is entering year 4 of 10 year career ! Its no brainer for me bc we have to get it RIGHT ! having both all but guarantees we get it right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 3 hours ago, SLCbear said: Wouldn't drafting CW and keeping JF at least one more year OPTIMIZE our chances of getting it right FINALLY ??! This will likely cost is MHj but we would still get BB to pair PERFECTLY w kmet for this offense !! JF next year is entering year 4 of 10 year career ! Its no brainer for me bc we have to get it RIGHT ! having both all but guarantees we get it right If you are drafting Williams you've given up on Fields. If you keep Fields and extend him but you have to trade Williams later you look completely stupid for wasting the top overall pick and depriving Fields of MHJ or a haul of picks. It needs to be one or the other or you're admitting you have no clue of your own evaluations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLCbear Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Sugashane said: 1. If you are drafting Williams you've given up on Fields. 2. If you keep Fields and extend him but you have to trade Williams later you look completely stupid for wasting the top overall pick and depriving Fields of MHJ or a haul of picks. 3. It needs to be one or the other or you're admitting you have no clue of your own evaluations. 1. Drafting CW doesn't mean we have given up on Fields. It means that we have selected BPA, at the most important position in all of sports. We still have full control of where JF plays for the next 4 years, and then by selecting CW we have full control of where he plays for the next 7. So much can happen in that time and ALL of our eggs are not in one single basket. 2. Fair point about losing out on MHj bc he is a true unicorn especially at his size, BUT pairing Bowers (another unicorn) with Kmet in a run, short-intermediate pass heavy scheme, setting up deep shots, can impact winning at same level 3. This is the crusty traditional NFL mindset that keeps teams in that middling/reset-every-few-years treadmill mode. What happens when your 'evaluations' come up short but you have put all of your resources (draft capital, FA$$ etc) into building around one player ?? Answer is you tear it down and start over. Some key FACTS to strongly consider here: 1. JF is entering year 4 of 10 year (or less) career. 2. If we select CW and JF never reaches perceived on-field potential (as many, including you believe he won't), we then have Caleb ******* Williams ready to step in and take over ! 3. If JF DOES reach his perceived potential, we then have the option to win alot games with him for another year or 2 or even 3 while CW sits and learns (and starts those games JF WILL inevitably miss due to injury), and then trade JF down the road for a massive return What is with this black and white thinking ?? Why not make moves that SIGnificantly raise the chances of getting it right, rather than going ALL IN on 'evaluations' ??! especially when EVERY team constantly misses on their evaluations Edited December 2, 2023 by SLCbear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 6 hours ago, SLCbear said: What is with this black and white thinking ?? Why not make moves that SIGnificantly raise the chances of getting it right, rather than going ALL IN on 'evaluations' ??! especially when EVERY team constantly misses on their evaluations You’re not taking Williams/Maye unless you think he is or will be better than Fields. If that’s the case, you’re playing the rookie, not sitting him behind a guy you think is or will be your 2nd best QB. If you do still believe in Fields or don’t like Williams/Maye any more than you like Fields then you’re trading down for a HUGE haul of non-QB assets and/or taking Harrison to give Fields the best chance to succeed rather than spending your most valuable resource on a guy you’re hoping never plays behind Fields. The half measure wouldn't be in having both QBs on the roster. The half measure would be that having both on your roster with one of them sitting doesn’t best set the one who’s playing up for success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 7 hours ago, SLCbear said: 3. If JF DOES reach his perceived potential, we then have the option to win alot games with him for another year or 2 or even 3 while CW sits and learns (and starts those games JF WILL inevitably miss due to injury), and then trade JF down the road for a massive return If JF does reach his potential then why in the name of Zeus’ butthole would we trade him? The whole point is to find the guy, is it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLCbear Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 48 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: 1. You’re not taking Williams/Maye unless you think he is or will be better than Fields. 2. If that’s the case, you’re playing the rookie, not sitting him behind a guy you think is or will be your 2nd best QB. 3. If you do still believe in Fields or don’t like Williams/Maye any more than you like Fields then you’re trading down for a HUGE haul of non-QB assets and/or taking Harrison to give Fields the best chance to succeed rather than spending your most valuable resource on a guy you’re hoping never plays behind Fields. 4. The half measure wouldn't be in having both QBs on the roster. The half measure would be that having both on your roster with one of them sitting doesn’t best set the one who’s playing up for success. 1. CW is better than JF imho and its not really close. 2. What is the RUSH to play a rookie who can sit and learn behind an ascending vet like JF ?? Plus JF, RIGHT NOW AT THE NFL LEVEL, is probably a little better than CW. So what is the rush to play Williams, or go all in on either QB when we still have not entirely seen what JF is going to become yet ?? We are in a super rare position to have both qBs and to let it all play out bc we have the extra top 3-10 pick !! AND we still do not know whether or not we will see another significant developmental leap from JF. And if there is another significant leap from JF we will then have 2 excellent options, we can either keep JF another year or 2 or 3 while controlling CW for 7, or trade JF for a very nice return ! **** evaluations and ****what we THINK JF will be ! We are in a position to keep JF and find out for sure, and draft Williams AND add a BIGTIME WEAPON like Bowers ! What if we go all in on JF and he doesn't take that developmental leap with new coaching ?? What if JF takes a bad hit and heaven forbid 🙏🏼suffers career threatening injury ? What if we go all in on CW and JF turns into a superstar with new coaching but for another franchise, and we traded him for pennies on the dollar ?? We can absolutely afford to take a wait and see approach which is highly unusual in the NFL. We can afford to do this bc of Bowers and the extra pick ! Thank you Ryan Poles 🙏🏼 3. Let's say you trade down for all those assets and then JFs ascension peaks well short of expectations ? Then what ?? 4. One is 4th year ascending vet, the other is a brand new rookie. There is a clear pecking order at least for year 1 AND JF will miss some games, we all know this and CW will start those games Last thing I'll say and I've made this point a million times already ! We got into about Roschon bc of this ! JFs career will last 9-10 yrs tops and the start of next season is year 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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