RavensfanRD Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Yes! Well, unless Harbaugh hires another Greg Mattison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 On 12/8/2017 at 8:14 AM, drd23 said: Its a hell of a lot easier when you play so many rookies and back-ups Not saying that this is a bad defense, but to use "number of shutouts" as a way of comparing this defense to great defenses in the past is misleading imo Possibly. But in the modern era of football, how many teams do you think have had a similar ease of schedule? A good number you’d agree, correct? Now how many of those teams had 3 shutouts in a football season? Only four teams in the modern NFL have pitched 3 shutouts or more and three of those teams won the Super Bowl. We can argue all we want about how talented this team is and how bad some of these quarterbacks were. But I remember back to the Brian Billick/Rex Ryan years and one of our weaknesses on defense were that we would always give up big games to no name quarterbacks and couldn’t close out teams in the 4th quarter. Yet with Dean Pees, this season at least, that has been the strength of this unit. Beat up on the weak and close out the strong. I’m not arguing that this defense is better than the 00’ defense or even the 06’ defense, but it’s certainly good enough for me to give Pees a reprieve. I wouldn’t mind him retiring if it means netting Chuck Pagano, but if it means netting someone with no experience or negative experience that just so happens to be best friends with Harbaugh’s grand niece on his fathers side of the family... I’m not a fan. Also, if this team were to somehow win a superb owl... then I think we would at least have to seriously compare this defense to that 06’ unit. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Quote But in the modern era of football, how many teams do you think have had a similar ease of schedule? A good number you’d agree, correct? I don't know that I would agree with this. Our schedule has been among the easiest I've ever seen in terms of QB's we've faced. How many of the teams on the hypothetical list you've created also had good defenses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 24 minutes ago, Darth Pees said: I don't know that I would agree with this. Our schedule has been among the easiest I've ever seen in terms of QB's we've faced. How many of the teams on the hypothetical list you've created also had good defenses? http://www.espn.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/93140/super-bowl-ravens-nfls-shutout-mark-suggests-defense-is-championship-caliber You’re kidding yourself if you think that over the last 30 years of NFL football and the many schedules and teams and defenses, that other teams haven’t found themselves with a similar schedule. Be it backup quarterbacks, rookie quarterbacks, crappy starters, etc. And in all those years this is only the fifth team to have 3+ shutouts in a season. Luck plays a part of every sport and if we were arguing that this was the best defense of all time, I’m sure I’d be one of the first to bring up ease of schedule. But we’re arguing competence by a defensive coordinator. The fact remains that in the modern era of football, few other defenses were able to replicate what this current Ravens unit have accomplished under Dean Pees. And even though he has equally coached some crappy defenses and his coaching style of bend but don’t break isn’t fun to watch, this season hasn’t been one of them. And I think it at least earns him another year... if he doesn’t retire first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paraven Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 what about Mike Pettine for DC? I feel he got a bad deal in cleveland, and alot of players liked him when he was here as LB coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said: http://www.espn.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/93140/super-bowl-ravens-nfls-shutout-mark-suggests-defense-is-championship-caliber You’re kidding yourself if you think that over the last 30 years of NFL football and the many schedules and teams and defenses, that other teams haven’t found themselves with a similar schedule. Be it backup quarterbacks, rookie quarterbacks, crappy starters, etc. And in all those years this is only the fifth team to have 3+ shutouts in a season. Luck plays a part of every sport and if we were arguing that this was the best defense of all time, I’m sure I’d be one of the first to bring up ease of schedule. But we’re arguing competence by a defensive coordinator. The fact remains that in the modern era of football, few other defenses were able to replicate what this current Ravens unit have accomplished under Dean Pees. And even though he has equally coached some crappy defenses and his coaching style of bend but don’t break isn’t fun to watch, this season hasn’t been one of them. And I think it at least earns him another year... if he doesn’t retire first. What was the point of posting that article? Unless it refutes my point or provides some historical context, it's useless. I'm well aware of everything I just read in that article, so I'm confused. Again, can you find any examples of teams over the past 30 years with good defenses facing as many bad teams and backup QB's as we have? I'm not saying the 3 shutouts aren't great, they just deserve context surrounding them. Our defense by itself is a top-3 unit on paper, so why are we acting like it's the greatest thing ever to shutout bad teams with bad QB's? I think it's common knowledge that Pees needs insane amounts of talent on defense to succeed. He proved that in 2014(?) when we had Dumervil, McPhee and Suggs, and it's showing again this year. If this unit has any chinks in the armor, like losing Brandon Williams, Pees has shown he gets completely overmatched quite easily. Perhaps I am being pessimistic, but for how often Pees underperforms given the talent he's been dealt in his years here, I don't think he deserves heaps of praise for finally performing up to the expected level of performance when he's handed an extremely loaded defense AND one of the most favorable matchups/schedules I've ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontTazeMeBro Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 45 minutes ago, paraven said: what about Mike Pettine for DC? I feel he got a bad deal in cleveland, and alot of players liked him when he was here as LB coach. I actually thought about him too. I don’t think that would be a bad choice and after pees, Pagano and Fangio he’d probably be my next choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Darth Pees said: What was the point of posting that article? Unless it refutes my point or provides some historical context, it's useless. I'm well aware of everything I just read in that article, so I'm confused. Again, can you find any examples of teams over the past 30 years with good defenses facing as many bad teams and backup QB's as we have? I'm not saying the 3 shutouts aren't great, they just deserve context surrounding them. Our defense by itself is a top-3 unit on paper, so why are we acting like it's the greatest thing ever to shutout bad teams with bad QB's? I think it's common knowledge that Pees needs insane amounts of talent on defense to succeed. He proved that in 2014(?) when we had Dumervil, McPhee and Suggs, and it's showing again this year. If this unit has any chinks in the armor, like losing Brandon Williams, Pees has shown he gets completely overmatched quite easily. Perhaps I am being pessimistic, but for how often Pees underperforms given the talent he's been dealt in his years here, I don't think he deserves heaps of praise for finally performing up to the expected level of performance when he's handed an extremely loaded defense AND one of the most favorable matchups/schedules I've ever seen. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2017&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1 http://nfltraderumors.co/188584-2/ So I lost a much more thorough post due to a page timing out so this will be much more succinct. 1) The point of the above link was to show you just how rare the phenomenon of 3 shutouts in a season are. For the past 30 years there have been just about 15000 Nfl games, about 500 games a season. So on average it takes about 3000 games played before a team reaches the 3 shutout/season category. 2.) You want me to comb through 30 years of data, 15,000 games to prove to you that Pees accomplishment should be enough to recuse him from being on the block?? But I will comb through just this season. The Ravens have the 7th ranked defense in yards per game in the league. The Steelers (since they’re in our division and thus a good sample) are 4th. We have the 29th easiest schedule in the league (not even the easiest this season) and they have the 27th easiest schedule. They have 0 shutouts on the season. We have 3 shutouts. That’s how difficult a shutout victory is. Anyone who has played any team sport knows exactly how difficult it is to keep an entire team from scoring for an entire game. You have to deal with overconfidence, luck, busted plays, bad offense allowing a score, etc. 3) I didn’t say anything about heaps of praise. However to not credit a coach for spearheading a unit that has reached an historic plateau could be construed as the definition of a hater. If Pees retires I’m fine, because of his history with underperforming defenses. However, that’s not what is being argued. What is being argued has been his defense this season giving him a reprieve from replacement talk and it has, outside of retirement, he should be rewarded with another year. If he retires, so be it. But if he were to retire and we hire some hotshot defensive coordinator and that coach fields a statistically worse unit in almost every way, would you then use that to argue in hindsight that Pees did an admirable job? Or would you simply blame the new coaches’ luck or his more difficult schedule for his lack of results? Like I said, I may not like Pees defensive style, but I can’t argue with his results. And IF he were to coach another Super Bowl defense, we then have to start asking ourselves how truly bad of a coordinator was he really. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 I rest my case, DB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavensDefense3 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 We will never achieve defensive greatness with Dean Pees. He has all the talent in the world, and it's the same crap every season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontTazeMeBro Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Is it dean’s fault that Jefferson who we paid all that money for can’t even cover Roosevelt nix? I don’t even mind that Pees gets criticized. But it’s always him. It’s NEVER these players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavensDefense3 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, DontTazeMeBro said: Is it dean’s fault that Jefferson who we paid all that money for can’t even cover Roosevelt nix? I don’t even mind that Pees gets criticized. But it’s always him. It’s NEVER these players jefferson was a great player in Arizona, he's shown flashes of that here too. Darian Stewart who was terrible here went to Denver and has been a pro bowl player. I don't think it's the players man it's dean freaking pees and his stupid zone defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontTazeMeBro Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 1 minute ago, RavensDefense3 said: jefferson was a great player in Arizona, he's shown flashes of that here too. Darian Stewart who was terrible here went to Denver and has been a pro bowl player. I don't think it's the players man it's dean freaking pees and his stupid zone defense I saw a lot of man coverage early. And a lot of Antonio Brown embarrassing Carr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 6 minutes ago, DontTazeMeBro said: Is it dean’s fault that Jefferson who we paid all that money for can’t even cover Roosevelt nix? I don’t even mind that Pees gets criticized. But it’s always him. It’s NEVER these players It is Dean's fault that Brandon Carr repeatedly had no safety help when in press man coverage against Antonio Brown, which cost us AT LEAST 120 yards tonight. If you want to pin the signing of Jefferson on Ozzie, I'm all for that. It was a horrible signing for a player who is not a scheme fit in our defense, and I have no clue why we did that. He can't cover, he can't tackle, he can't do anything. He also lost the edge on Bell's last TD run, too. Those are things I don't pin directly on Pees. But there is SO MUCH ELSE that is directly attributed to Pees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavensDefense3 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, DontTazeMeBro said: I saw a lot of man coverage early. And a lot of Antonio Brown embarrassing Carr. Carr is a good #2 CB, cannot expect him to go toe to toe with the best WR in the league without any safety help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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