LuckyNumber11 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 7 minutes ago, El Ramster said: It’s crazy. It reminds me of hating nickle back. There’s no team we destroy more than the cards. And I see that the kid has talent and little help. He’s asked to carry a team. No one is asked to carry the team more than Kyler. He needs a Oline. James Conner to me is as, has ok games here and there. Hollywood brown is super overrated and was never worth the first round pick. Last year I’d have told you James Conner was a JAG running back, but this year he’s been incredible. Offensive line took a good step forward too which has helped a lot. To be fair I think the Rams game at home was the worst we played all year. I walked out so mad after that game. But Kyler got better and more comfortable under center as the weeks went on. I mean his best receiver was Greg freaking Dortch this year 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbertGOAT Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 9 hours ago, Nobellythrower said: How is herbert going to be in that category when he has 1 playoff appearance in four years and it's blowing a 27-0 lead Because it's essentially impossible to make the playoffs with a bottom 5 defense every year. It's hard to hold a lead with an OC that turned Calvin Johnson into Jericho Cotchery and an RB who's only valuable trait is poaching goalline TDs. Peyton Manning had zero playoff wins until year SIX, with Marvin Harrison, Edgerrin James, Reggie Wayne, etc. Was he behind QB gods such as Brad Johnson and Kerry Collins at that point? Way to disregard everything else in my post too. https://x.com/mibpj2/status/1735720051385208898?s=20 https://x.com/mibpj2/status/1734726656194179120?s=20 https://x.com/mibpj2/status/1729342254496756223?s=20 https://x.com/mibpj2/status/1728891922889224378?s=20 https://x.com/ScottChildrens/status/1685002733278093314?s=20 Here are some more factual statements that you can go ahead and ignore because you're not interested in context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbertGOAT Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 5 hours ago, Soggust said: T1 - Mahomes T2 - Lamar, Allen, Dak, Burrow T3 - Purdy, Stroud, Tua, Cousins T4 - Stafford, Rodgers, Herbert, Hurts, Goff, Love, Kyler T5 - Flacco, Carr, Baker, Russ T6 - Geno, Fields, Minshew, Lawrence T7 - AOC, Pickett, Tyrod, Howell T8 - Any Pats QB, Zach Wilson, Young, Ridder Winning a SB this year would move any player besides Mahomes, Allen, and Dak up a tier for me (would maybe move Love up two tiers). Dak being in the "Lamar Allen Burrow" tier is laughable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 35 minutes ago, HerbertGOAT said: Dak being in the "Lamar Allen Burrow" tier is laughable. Why though? He's coming off arguably the best statistical QB season, 4500 35:10 ish .... which is essentially a Burrow/Allen year. It's also not really that out of line for his career, where he has had 2 other seasons with > 100 QB rating. He has a 99 rating for his career. Heck he essentially had this same season 2 seasons ago. Apart from "he had a bad year last year", I'm not sure why people hate Dak so much. It seems to me that like last year was the fluke year, not this year, given the rest of his career stats. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobellythrower Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 53 minutes ago, HerbertGOAT said: Because it's essentially impossible to make the playoffs with a bottom 5 defense every year. Couldn't even sneak in as the #6 or #7 seed? Eagles have a bottom 5 defense and still in the playoffs, also earlier in his career he did have a younger keenan and mike williams, ekeler, there's no excuse to not make it not saying win just making it , Allen/Burrow/Lamar all have cemented themselves at this point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbertGOAT Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 45 minutes ago, Soggust said: Why though? He's coming off arguably the best statistical QB season, 4500 35:10 ish .... which is essentially a Burrow/Allen year. It's also not really that out of line for his career, where he has had 2 other seasons with > 100 QB rating. He has a 99 rating for his career. Heck he essentially had this same season 2 seasons ago. Apart from "he had a bad year last year", I'm not sure why people hate Dak so much. It seems to me that like last year was the fluke year, not this year, given the rest of his career stats. If people are going to hold out on Herbert for no playoff success, then they should do the same with Dak. I don't hate Dak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 6 minutes ago, HerbertGOAT said: If people are going to hold out on Herbert for no playoff success, then they should do the same with Dak. I don't hate Dak. Not that it’s the end all be all stat, but Daks career PSR is 99.x - meanwhile Herbert has never posted a 99.0. Dak has multiple season in triple digits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) 12 minutes ago, HerbertGOAT said: If people are going to hold out on Herbert for no playoff success, then they should do the same with Dak. I don't hate Dak. I actually don't really hold playoff success against Herbert, personally. I think sans a SB trophy or repeated deep runs, I'm not even sure why playoff wins matter so much to some folks. My issue with Herbert is he went from 2 Burrow/Allen-esque (T2) years to 2 Goff-ish (T4) years. He was a T2 QB in my mind his first two years. Now, he's got recency against him. We can start blaming his weapons, teams, etc but I don't do that. To me, you are what your stats say you are - especially 4 years in. And to date, he hasn't quite been the T2 monster he was the first couple years. Still been solid and I don't think his tier is a bad tier to be in. But I also don't think he wants to regress any further. If he comes out and puts up a big season next year, I'll gladly move him up, but until he does, he's slipped down the mountain for me. Edited January 10 by Soggust 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbertGOAT Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 32 minutes ago, Nobellythrower said: Couldn't even sneak in as the #6 or #7 seed? Eagles have a bottom 5 defense and still in the playoffs, also earlier in his career he did have a younger keenan and mike williams, ekeler, there's no excuse to not make it not saying win just making it , Allen/Burrow/Lamar all have cemented themselves at this point The Eagles defense has allowed 25.2 PPG this year. Herbert missed the playoffs in 2020 and 2021 with scoring defenses of 26.6 and 27 PPG, respectively. Eagles have played a playoff team 8 times, while in 2021 the Chargers played a playoff team 10 times. Mike and Ekeler are largely overrated by the general populace because on highlights and Fantasy Football. MW is a non-factor when Keenan isn't in the game, because he can't get open, has drop issues, and no YAC ability. Ekeler is a TD vulture. He doesn't catch passes downfield, and can't run between the tackles consistently. At best, he was a fringe top 10 RB. Not to mention, Herbert has had bad to terrible coaching, both as HC and OC. Teams to make the playoffs allowing 26 or more PPG (16 game era): 2018 Chiefs 2020 Titans 2020 Browns 2000 Rams 2008 Cardinals 2013 Packers So, in 45ish years, a grand total of 6 teams have made the playoffs with what Herbert had to deal with in his first 2 years. I'm not trying to say Herbert is a god. He's not. He's to blame for a few losses in his career (MNF vs Dallas this year in particular). But people have long salivated over a Chargers roster that just... isn't THAT good. Not to mention he's had to learn a new playbook essentially every year, while all his contemporaries have some semblance of consistency. I think an argument can be made to rank Herbert anywhere from 2-10ish. But to pretend like he's not a key part of that top 5 discussion because "no playoffs" is disingenuous and heavily overrates his supporting cast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbertGOAT Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 14 minutes ago, Soggust said: I actually don't really hold playoff success against Herbert, personally. I think sans a SB trophy or repeated deep runs, I'm not even sure why playoff wins matter so much to some folks. My issue with Herbert is he went from 2 Burrow/Allen-esque (T2) years to 2 Goff-ish (T4) years. He was a T2 QB in my mind his first two years. Now, he's got recency against him. We can start blaming his weapons, teams, etc but I don't do that. To me, you are what your stats say you are - especially 4 years in. And to date, he hasn't quite been the T2 monster he was the first couple years. Still been solid and I don't think his tier is a bad tier to be in. But I also don't think he wants to regress any further. If he comes out and puts up a big season next year, I'll gladly move him up, but until he does, he's slipped down the mountain for me. Fair take. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbertGOAT Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 19 minutes ago, MaddHatter said: Not that it’s the end all be all stat, but Daks career PSR is 99.x - meanwhile Herbert has never posted a 99.0. Dak has multiple season in triple digits. Part of that is the complete lack of explosion in the Chargers offense. When Herbert throws a 5 yard pass, it gets 9-10 yards at most. He's never able to throw a slant or drag and have his WR break a tackle and take it to the house Dak can with CeeDee, Hurts can with AJB, Burrow can with Chase, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 53 minutes ago, HerbertGOAT said: Part of that is the complete lack of explosion in the Chargers offense. When Herbert throws a 5 yard pass, it gets 9-10 yards at most. He's never able to throw a slant or drag and have his WR break a tackle and take it to the house Dak can with CeeDee, Hurts can with AJB, Burrow can with Chase, etc. So we’re gonna pretend like he didn’t have Mike Williams, Keenan Allen and Austin Eckler? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbertGOAT Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 3 hours ago, MaddHatter said: So we’re gonna pretend like he didn’t have Mike Williams, Keenan Allen and Austin Eckler? 4 hours ago, HerbertGOAT said: Mike and Ekeler are largely overrated by the general populace because on highlights and Fantasy Football. MW is a non-factor when Keenan isn't in the game, because he can't get open, has drop issues, and no YAC ability. Ekeler is a TD vulture. He doesn't catch passes downfield, and can't run between the tackles consistently. At best, he was a fringe top 10 RB. None of them have any speed whatsoever. Keenan is awesome, but Ekeler and MW are not real gamechangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 22 hours ago, Soggust said: Why though? He's coming off arguably the best statistical QB season, 4500 35:10 ish .... which is essentially a Burrow/Allen year. It's also not really that out of line for his career, where he has had 2 other seasons with > 100 QB rating. He has a 99 rating for his career. Heck he essentially had this same season 2 seasons ago. Apart from "he had a bad year last year", I'm not sure why people hate Dak so much. It seems to me that like last year was the fluke year, not this year, given the rest of his career stats. We’re gonna act like last yeR didn’t happen? All the playoff chokes. F outta here. Dak needs to prove it first. He’s bottom 12. Jordan love about to come in and outplay him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) 19 minutes ago, El Ramster said: We’re gonna act like last yeR didn’t happen? All the playoff chokes. F outta here. Dak needs to prove it first. He’s bottom 12. Jordan love about to come in and outplay him. So where would we rank Lamar? Playoff choker and we can't act like 21' didn't happen, right? (and 22' arguably with ~240typg lowest of his career) Not a top 10 QB until he proves it in the playoffs (despite a great year), but a step ahead of Dak? #11? edit- owait you said bottom 12 so that would put Lamar like #18-19? Edited January 10 by Soggust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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