Let's talk Bryce Young

[notthatbluestuff]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

 

Some truth here. But, you swap Young for Stroud, there is no way Young is doing what Stroud is in Houston. And Stroud would look a lot better for the Panthers right now. 

"In defense of Young, he just doesn't have anything to work with in Houston..."

[Chiefer]

I’m still rooting for Young and think he can rebound. But maybe this will be a cautionary tale for teams and draftniks/scouts. Sometimes going for a QB with the measurable traits is the good idea. Just because you have the first overall doesn’t mean you have to be different or edgy. The classic model, tall, strong arm, athletic, etc. there’s a reason just 15 years ago guys like Kyler, Young or to a lesser extant Baker Mayfield would not have gone anywhere near the first overall. They may not have even gone first round at all(baker likely would have at 6 foot)

the game is built for tall, strong athletes because you’ve got linemen who are 6’4 and 310 to throw over and that are also trying to tackle you to the ground. It’s really that simple sometimes. Just because a short guy won a heisman doesn’t mean that will translate to the NFL. 

[lavar703]

4 minutes ago, Chiefer said:

I’m still rooting for Young and think he can rebound. But maybe this will be a cautionary tale for teams and draftniks/scouts. Sometimes going for a QB with the measurable traits is the good idea. Just because you have the first overall doesn’t mean you have to be different or edgy. The classic model, tall, strong arm, athletic, etc. there’s a reason just 15 years ago guys like Kyler, Young or to a lesser extant Baker Mayfield would not have gone anywhere near the first overall. They may not have even gone first round at all(baker likely would have at 6 foot)

the game is built for tall, strong athletes because you’ve got linemen who are 6’4 and 310 to throw over and that are also trying to tackle you to the ground. It’s really that simple sometimes. Just because a short guy won a heisman doesn’t mean that will translate to the NFL. 

I don't think it was being edgy. I think the owner just forced the pick. From everything I've read the Front Office and coaching staff wanted Stroud. 

[Chiefer]

1 minute ago, lavar703 said:

I don't think it was being edgy. I think the owner just forced the pick. From everything I've read the Front Office and coaching staff wanted Stroud. 

Even if it was the owners decision a lot of draftniks still lauded the pick. 

the fact that is getting out is not good for Carolina, so much dysfunction this early and people trying to cover their own behinds. Does not do well for Bryce Young’s future prospects 

[ET80]

3 hours ago, lavar703 said:

I think Young will be fine. Its unfortunate for him that Stroud is playing so well because fans will wonder why he's not doing it. I think Tua went through something similar when Herbert took off and he was struggling. Young is a pretty talented guy and I think as he gets more comfortable and he's surrounded with better talent he will start to settle down and look like the guy who was worth the first pick. 

I fully agree with this take. Right down to the Tua comp.

[notthatbluestuff]

4 hours ago, lavar703 said:

I think Young will be fine. Its unfortunate for him that Stroud is playing so well because fans will wonder why he's not doing it. I think Tua went through something similar when Herbert took off and he was struggling.

No doubt. This forum hated Tua; there were so many remarks about his short passing game (ignoring the necessity of getting the ball out quickly due to a non-existent o-line) being his only ability. All the jokes when Miami acquired Hill were that Tua wouldn't be able to get the ball to him...

[lavar703]

14 minutes ago, Chiefer said:

Even if it was the owners decision a lot of draftniks still lauded the pick. 

the fact that is getting out is not good for Carolina, so much dysfunction this early and people trying to cover their own behinds. Does not do well for Bryce Young’s future prospects 

We don't have to pretend Bryce Young was some bad player (not saying you're saying that) because of the current results he's showing. He was a pretty remarkable talent at Alabama and displayed a ton of QB'ing abilities young players just don't at that level. This isn't to say he's going to develop into a great player but acting as though he can't turn things around after 8 or 9 starts is just silly. 

But yes, coming from a fan of a team who's dysfunctional owner just sold it rots everything. Its unfortunate and I hope that's not the case for Panther fans.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

I don't understand some of the talk about Young not having talent surrounding him, like people thought Nico Collins and Tank Dell were gonna be good or something? 

CJ Stroud would be absolutely balling on the Panthers, and Bryce Young would still look awful on the Texans.

[notthatbluestuff]

8 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I don't understand some of the talk about Young not having talent surrounding him, like people thought Nico Collins and Tank Dell were gonna be good or something? 

CJ Stroud would be absolutely balling on the Panthers, and Bryce Young would still look awful on the Texans.

Well, I've been told that it doesn't matter what we thought about those players; we're supposed to only look at how they're performing right now. So, Collins and Dell are good now because they're playing well now. No need to question why that might be.

[iknowcool]

11 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I don't understand some of the talk about Young not having talent surrounding him, like people thought Nico Collins and Tank Dell were gonna be good or something? 

My man, I have heard you complain about Lamar Jackson not having enough talent around him for years despite having Mark Andrews.  And now you "don't understand some of the talk about Young not having talent around him"?  Come on now.

[iknowcool]

1 minute ago, notthatbluestuff said:

Well, I've been told that it doesn't matter what we thought about those players; we're supposed to only look at how they're performing right now. So, Collins and Dell are good now because they're playing well now. No need to question why that might be.

Collins and Dell are outperforming the receivers in Kansas City.  Is CJ Stroud better than Patrick Mahomes? 

Would you take the Panthers guys over the Texans guys?  Or are you going to keep ignoring the question and going around parroting the same nonsense?

[notthatbluestuff]

1 minute ago, iknowcool said:

Would you take the Panthers guys over the Texans guys?  Or are you going to keep ignoring the question and going around parroting the same nonsense?

I answered that question if you look through the thread in question a little more thoroughly.

[iknowcool]

7 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

I answered that question if you look through the thread in question a little more thoroughly.

I can't find it.  Answer for me again.  Who is better?  It seems easy enough to type it out again, if you already answered it.  A simple "Panthers" or "Texans" suffices.

[Soko]

1 hour ago, Chiefer said:

I’m still rooting for Young and think he can rebound. But maybe this will be a cautionary tale for teams and draftniks/scouts. Sometimes going for a QB with the measurable traits is the good idea. Just because you have the first overall doesn’t mean you have to be different or edgy. The classic model, tall, strong arm, athletic, etc. there’s a reason just 15 years ago guys like Kyler, Young or to a lesser extant Baker Mayfield would not have gone anywhere near the first overall. They may not have even gone first round at all(baker likely would have at 6 foot)

the game is built for tall, strong athletes because you’ve got linemen who are 6’4 and 310 to throw over and that are also trying to tackle you to the ground. It’s really that simple sometimes. Just because a short guy won a heisman doesn’t mean that will translate to the NFL. 

I don’t think it has anything to do with their measurables. 80% of what it takes to be a good QB in those league have to do with what’s above the shoulders. Guys either have that or they don’t. Bryce’s arm clearly isn’t an issue. Obviously being shorter/smaller/skinnier/slower/weaker arm, wouldn’t help and only would make things tougher - but does anyone think that if you put Brady or Peyton or Bree’s’ brain in Young’s body, that he wouldn’t succeed because he’s too small? 

The flip side to Bryce being a cautionary tale is - what about Wentz? Or Lynch? Or Osweiler? Or EJ? Or Locker? Or Gabbert? Or Rosen? Or Bortles? Those are all bigger QBs that fit more of the traditional mold than Young. Their size didn’t seem to help them stay in the league all that much. You have super talented guys at every position, that check every box, that don’t become big successes. 

You just can’t tell. If Young becomes a massive QB bust, it’ll be because he didn’t have what it takes as a QB, not because he’s too short. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 hour ago, iknowcool said:

My man, I have heard you complain about Lamar Jackson not having enough talent around him for years despite having Mark Andrews.  And now you "don't understand some of the talk about Young not having talent around him"?  Come on now.

I've complained about the WR's but never about Mark Andrews.

Dude has talent around him, but even beyond that he just looks bad regardless. Completely different than Lamar carrying a WR core made up of guys who are currently not in the league to the playoffs.