John Dorsey named GM

[dawgdish]

10 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said:

Come on man what he said was stupid. He threw 85% of the organization under the bus. Again as I stated earlier if he changes this thing around I really do not care. But do you realize there are rumors out there that because of what he said we’re looking at another tear down to the studs? AGAIN?  Sometimes it’s a good thing to talk less and let your accomplishments speak for themselves. 

And im not a snowflake. I rather think of myself as steel wool. Rather abrasive, but hot dang if I don’t keep mice out of certain areas of your house. 

Who cares what rumors are out there because of what he said in an interview? Let's see how he does through his actions with the roster and the draft, that's the only thing I'm worried about. I'm glad he's holding himself, and all the other grown men past and present in the organization to a high standard. If that ruffles feathers, so be it.

[Thomas5737]

15 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said:

I rather think of myself as steel wool. Rather abrasive, but hot dang if I don’t keep mice out of certain areas of your house. 

Just for those who are into that sort of thing it also works to keep mice in certain areas of your house.

[H2ThaIzzo]

On one hand he isn't wrong. Two years worth of drafts and we have what, two or three playmakers out of it? Garrett, Njoku and Ogbah? Peppers has been misused but still looks like he was the wrong pick. Corey Coleman hasn't been healthy enough to make a call on. I think Larry O has a bright future but I am going to have some realistic expectations about him. We have a ton of JAG players that we drafted, we lack pure playmakers, our defense is about two solid contributors from being real solid, but we have missed on those spots. 

 

Not only has that happened, but from most accounts, the guys who were running the organization rubbed teams the wrong way when it came to how they handled trades that it's rumored that the Patriots didn't even attempt to deal with us before taking SF's offer for Jimmy G. 

 

I'm not supporting Hue either in this. I think he has been as much of a let down as anyone. I certainly hope John is right in his assessment. 

[dawgdish]

10 minutes ago, buno67 said:

Hell my only issue is that he only threw 85% of the organization under the bus. 100% of the organization deserves to be thrown under the bus.

Heck if he blows it up, it might not take as long because Sashi did a majority of the work. His rebuild might not be as crazy as Sashi's plan.

Sashi had a plan? The only discernible one I can detect is continue to strip the roster of experience and accumulate picks for the future. The more I think about it, the bigger of an idiot he is. It doesn't take a Harvard degree to see that his boss has the patience of a ferret with ADHD on a double espresso, so always waiting for next year is literally the worst possible plan you could hatch for the situation if you want to keep your job. We're already stripped down to the stud (singular, as in Garrett), so I hope Dorsey gets to work and finds us some more.

[Bonanza23]

6 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Just for those who are into that sort of thing it also works to keep mice in certain areas of your house.

Well gosh dang if nothing else you West Virginians are creative!

[buno67]

5 minutes ago, dawgdish said:

Sashi had a plan? The only discernible one I can detect is continue to strip the roster of experience and accumulate picks for the future. The more I think about it, the bigger of an idiot he is. It doesn't take a Harvard degree to see that his boss has the patience of a ferret with ADHD on a double espresso, so always waiting for next year is literally the worst possible plan you could hatch for the situation if you want to keep your job. We're already stripped down to the stud (singular, as in Garrett), so I hope Dorsey gets to work and finds us some more.

See to me he had a plan. Strip it down, build assets, and sign FAs who will be involved in the rebuild. To me you saw it when they refused to sign guys to one year quick deals. Brought every guy in to play for at least 2 years. 

[Bonanza23]

9 minutes ago, dawgdish said:

Who cares what rumors are out there because of what he said in an interview? Let's see how he does through his actions with the roster and the draft, that's the only thing I'm worried about. I'm glad he's holding himself, and all the other grown men past and present in the organization to a high standard. If that ruffles feathers, so be it.

That’s basically what I said. He’s still a moron for saying it. I suppose I’m just a show me you can do it kind if guy, don’t tell me. Just shut up and do your dang job. It’s quite literally like he’s going out of his way to praise the guys that were here before sashi and dig sashis guys. If he were smart he’d look thru the roster with unbiased eyes and go from there. 

Who knows maybe that’s what he’ll do. But come on just shut up and do your job. 

[Bonanza23]

7 minutes ago, dawgdish said:

Sashi had a plan? The only discernible one I can detect is continue to strip the roster of experience and accumulate picks for the future. The more I think about it, the bigger of an idiot he is. It doesn't take a Harvard degree to see that his boss has the patience of a ferret with ADHD on a double espresso, so always waiting for next year is literally the worst possible plan you could hatch for the situation if you want to keep your job. We're already stripped down to the stud (singular, as in Garrett), so I hope Dorsey gets to work and finds us some more.

Yeah he had a plan. Plain as a full moon being full. Unfortunately with your boy Haslam he didn’t realize an all important 3rd year which I believe was critical for what he was trying to accomplish. 

[bruceb]

1 minute ago, buno67 said:

Strip it down, build assets, and sign FAs who will be involved in the rebuild.

This.

I much rather would pick a QB with #1, sign 2-3 solid+ FAs at positions of need (e.g., DB) vs. throwing the money at Cousins, come away with 2 playmakers and future picks with the rest of our draft picks and call it a day.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

22 minutes ago, buno67 said:

Lets look at the drafts through the eyes if the AV.

Year -- accumulated career approximate value -- number of players drafted -- avg career approximate value per drafted player

KC

'13 - total of 73 (8 players) avg 9

'14 - total of 51 (6 players) avg 9

'15 - total of 70 (9 players) avg 8

'16 - total of 23 (9 players) avg 3

CLE

'13 - total of 20 (5 players) avg 4

'14 - total of 49 (6 players) avg 8

'15 - total of 44 (12 players) avg 4

'16 - total of 25 (14 players) avg 2

NE 

'13 - total of 65 (7 players) avg 9

'14 - total of 45 (9 players) avg 5

'15 - total of 51 (11 players) avg 5

'16 - total of 24 (9 players) avg 3

SEA

'13 - total of 48 (11 players) avg 4

'14 - total of 37 (9 players) avg 4

'15 - total of 31 (8 players) avg 4

'16 - total of 10 (10 players) avg 1

 

Ok he is a break down of the players KC has drafted from '13 to '16, its compared to the Browns, the Pats, and Seattle. I used the pats because they are one of the best franchise in the league and I used seattle because there GM is considered one of the best for what he has done with Seattle since he took over. I used the pro football reference for my source. I went through the drafts for each team and added up the career approximate value and avg  it out to per player because a larger draft class might have a higher numbers in a total.

KC drafting has been a lot better than what we are giving them credit for. The players they have drafted over that time has been making a lot more of an impact than the rookies from the other teams. KC has hit on a lot of players that turned into being complete studs compared to the other teams who got some good players but were not as good. Not all the players used are still on the team but its about finding players who can play in the NFL. Stats show KC has been a lot better at finding players who bring value to the team. A lot of the Browns players havent been bring value to the team.

So when Dorsey says there arent many real football players on the team, he seems to be right. Glad he isnt going to coddle the players and the roster. Everyone is having a job interview. The top guys shouldnt have anything to worry about but its good to not let them get comfortable.

There is all of one year of worthwhile info as it relates to this conversation.  

Im not going to debate as to whether Dorsey is better than either Banner or Farmer, particularly the latter.  The 2016 numbers (Sashi's) are really the only ones of interest.

AV is a fine statistic, but if you want to look hard enough you'll find a statistic to back any arguement.  Just look over the roster, his signings and his picks.  Is that a "great talent evaluator"?  He plugged in mediocre pieces around inherited studs and generally overpaid old guys.

My point isn't to crap on Dorsey, but this idea that some guys "have an eye for talent", which clearly isn't true or they'd do better than 50/50. Analytics, and Sashi, understand that point, hence the large number of picks.

Sashi also realized it's better long term to part with a guy a year early as opposed to a year late, which is how the league's most successful team has been doing business for years. Dorsey gives those vets extensions.

What Jimmy Haslam just did was look at plain and clear data that has solid rationale behind it and chose to take this franchise back 20 years because he's impatient and let a desperate coach get in his ear.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

22 minutes ago, H2ThaIzzo said:

On one hand he isn't wrong. Two years worth of drafts and we have what, two or three playmakers out of it? Garrett, Njoku and Ogbah? Peppers has been misused but still looks like he was the wrong pick. Corey Coleman hasn't been healthy enough to make a call on. I think Larry O has a bright future but I am going to have some realistic expectations about him. We have a ton of JAG players that we drafted, we lack pure playmakers, our defense is about two solid contributors from being real solid, but we have missed on those spots. 

 

Not only has that happened, but from most accounts, the guys who were running the organization rubbed teams the wrong way when it came to how they handled trades that it's rumored that the Patriots didn't even attempt to deal with us before taking SF's offer for Jimmy G. 

 

I'm not supporting Hue either in this. I think he has been as much of a let down as anyone. I certainly hope John is right in his assessment. 

You're evaluating Sashi's draft picks before half of them have finished their rookie seasons, let's just keep that in perspective.

Why does Sashi get the blame for NE not wanting to deal Garoppolo here?  Haslam has been running a sht show since day one. Sashi managed to complete more deals than any other GM I can think of over the last 2 years so he must not have been that difficult to work with.

[buno67]

4 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Im not going to debate as to whether Dorsey is better than either Banner or Farmer, particularly the latter.  The 2016 numbers (Sashi's) are really the only ones of interest.

Just so it couldnt be Dorsey vs Banner/Farmer/ Sashi, thats why I included the Pats and Seahawks

AV is a fine statistic, but if you want to look hard enough you'll find a statistic to back any arguement.  Just look over the roster, his signings and his picks.  Is that a "great talent evaluator"?  He plugged in mediocre pieces around inherited studs and generally overpaid old guys.

Yeah, if you look hard enough you can, but I didnt look hard, I just used one of pro-football references stats. Didnt go to Pro football focus or football outsiders to find a unquie state I could manipulate.

My point isn't to crap on Dorsey, but this idea that some guys "have an eye for talent", which clearly isn't true or they'd do better than 50/50. Analytics, and Sashi, understand that point, hence the large number of picks.

Why does it have to be better than 50/50. Is there an exact number of what is suppose to deem someone as successful or truly have an eye for talent. Heck Dorsey has done better than the two best franchises since 2010

Sashi also realized it's better long term to part with a guy a year early as opposed to a year late, which is how the league's most successful team has been doing business for years. Dorsey gives those vets extensions.

Sashi wasnt trying to pull a BB. Sashi was getting rid of guys that might help them win a little too much. BB gets rid of guys who will cost to much money and get in the way to winning superbowls. Also wouldnt see the most successful team over the past decade giving out contracts to the likes of Britt like the Browns. 

What Jimmy Haslam just did was look at plain and clear data that has solid rationale behind it and chose to take this franchise back 20 years because he's impatient and let a desperate coach get in his ear.

This is going to set the franchise back another 20years...GTFO

 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

My point being that no one has "an eye for talent", it's an effin guess.  Someone who has "an eye for" something does better at identifying it than 50/50. I've referenced a Vox article a half dozen times of a study of the last 15 drafts (at the time, a year or two ago) that essentially said every team hits on 45-56% of their picks and the teams who draft "best" do so because they draft more often, that's it.

Yeah, Sashi was tanking, for sure.  What's wrong with that? For the last decade I've head everyone in here complain about always missing guys because we won an extra meaningless game at the end of the season.  Now we haven't. And those folks still complain...

And the Pats would NEVER sign Britt.  Ever.  Except for when they did this week.

I didn't say it would set us back 20 years, I said he's choosing an antiquated philosophy used 20 years ago.

[Dogbite]

So I found the like button, but for some of the post I have read today I could not locate the dislike button.

[H2ThaIzzo]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

You're evaluating Sashi's draft picks before half of them have finished their rookie seasons, let's just keep that in perspective.

Why does Sashi get the blame for NE not wanting to deal Garoppolo here?  Haslam has been running a sht show since day one. Sashi managed to complete more deals than any other GM I can think of over the last 2 years so he must not have been that difficult to work with.

Go back and read/listen to the reasons why. From most accounts making a trade agreement between teams isn't a complicated thing. Apparently when trying to trade with Sashi and the Browns though it was a long, drawn out exhausting process that turned teams off, including New England. They did the trade for Collins, but apparently after that one was finally completed they were pretty much done with wanting to deal with us.