TecmoSuperJoe Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 17 minutes ago, CP3MVP said: Aikman after year 6 had 2 superbowls and a SB MVP Roger was a SB champion, Led the nfl in passer rating twice and touchdowns once in his first 6 years. And Moon never made a championship game appearance or was ever 1st Team All Pro. Hall of Famer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted October 21, 2023 Author Share Posted October 21, 2023 25 minutes ago, TecmoSuperJoe said: And Moon never made a championship game appearance or was ever 1st Team All Pro. Hall of Famer. That will never happen again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 12 minutes ago, CP3MVP said: That will never happen again Probably. But regardless it already has happened. Anyway, from my perspective Allen is already on a potential HOF pace regardless what accolades he has or has not received. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 8 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: I think you are overvaluing MVPs. Each of the last two seasons he has had more total yards and total TDs than, lets use Lamar Jackson, had in his MVP year. He also has had more playoff wins each of the last two years than Lamar has in his career. Yeah, that MVP looks pretty lame compared to Burrow's success. So it is overvalued. I don't think we need to devalue MVPs to pump up a player. Roger Staubach had zero all pros or MVPs (1 2nd place) but I'd put him as a top 5 all time QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 16 minutes ago, TecmoSuperJoe said: Probably. But regardless it already has happened. Anyway, from my perspective Allen is already on a potential HOF pace regardless what accolades he has or has not received. It bums me out we love ina world where Eli Manning has a stronger HoF case than Josh Allen (assuming Allen's career ended today) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 9 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: I think you are overvaluing MVPs. Each of the last two seasons he has had more total yards and total TDs than, lets use Lamar Jackson, had in his MVP year. He also has had more playoff wins each of the last two years than Lamar has in his career. Yeah, that MVP looks pretty lame compared to Burrow's success. So it is overvalued. It was obvious why you brought up that Burrow hasn't won an MVP. Weighing that highly helps bring Burrow down and raise up someone who has an MVP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 1 hour ago, CP3MVP said: Do you think his last season is in the same ballpark as Lamar’s 2019 season? He had more total yards and TDs and a better playoff performance. So yeah, I'd say ballpark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted October 21, 2023 Author Share Posted October 21, 2023 57 minutes ago, TecmoSuperJoe said: Probably. But regardless it already has happened. Anyway, from my perspective Allen is already on a potential HOF pace regardless what accolades he has or has not received. Warren moon had unusual circumstances in his career and narrative that will never be replicated again. It’s a once in a lifetime example. Josh Allen has literally done nothing of note that countless non HOF QBs have done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted October 21, 2023 Author Share Posted October 21, 2023 15 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: It was obvious why you brought up that Burrow hasn't won an MVP. Weighing that highly helps bring Burrow down and raise up someone who has an MVP. Yeah he brought up something that historically people have used in HOF debates. Burrow right now has zero mvps and zero championships 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 56 minutes ago, Mr Bad Example said: It bums me out we love ina world where Eli Manning has a stronger HoF case than Josh Allen (assuming Allen's career ended today) Maybe so. But then does Jim Plunkett? I wouldn't say so. Really is a case-by-case basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 (edited) 25 minutes ago, CP3MVP said: Warren moon had unusual circumstances in his career and narrative that will never be replicated again. It’s a once in a lifetime example. Josh Allen has literally done nothing of note that countless non HOF QBs have done That just leads further credence to the unpredictability of the HOF. I was just stating the facts in regards to his resume. Allen has also literally done things on the field that the majority of NFL QBs HOF or not have never done or will do. 30+ plus passing TDs in four straight (guessing he reaches that this year) seasons? Has any non-HOF QB done that? Regardless, he has as much a chance to make the HOF as anybody his age that's ever played at this juncture of his career. So yes, it's not just Mahomes for me. Edited October 21, 2023 by TecmoSuperJoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 11 hours ago, stl4life07 said: We get all the greatness talk about Mahomes Brady did that to his receivers. I think about Payton Currently look at what Stafford One of those things is not like the other 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 21 minutes ago, CP3MVP said: Yeah he brought up something that historically people have used in HOF debates. Burrow right now has zero mvps and zero championships He has only been in the league 4 years, he isn't a HOF'er yet or even close but he is the only QB in the AFC that has even gotten his team to the championship game since he has been in the league not named Mahomes. Championships and MVPs do get overvalued, Eli Manning shouldn't ever be in an all time great conversation unless you are talking specifically about a playoff run or something like that. Lamar shouldn't be in that conversation either but he had an MVP season 4 years ago and hasn't come close to it since. It is what it is though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 1 minute ago, Thomas5737 said: He has only been in the league 4 years, he isn't a HOF'er yet or even close but he is the only QB in the AFC that has even gotten his team to the championship game since he has been in the league not named Mahomes. Championships and MVPs do get overvalued, Eli Manning shouldn't ever be in an all time great conversation unless you are talking specifically about a playoff run or something like that. Lamar shouldn't be in that conversation either but he had an MVP season 4 years ago and hasn't come close to it since. It is what it is though. Josh Allen and the Bills got to the AFC title game in Burrow's rookie season. Just sayin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 On 10/19/2023 at 5:56 PM, CP3MVP said: This is probably the first time in my life watching football where I feel like this, one guy in the league at the position who is an all timer in the prime of his career. Rodgers for example is an all time great but he’s not playing right now and past his prime You are probably correct. The current top guys are not quite at the all-time level. Could they get there? Sure. Part of being an all time great is great play over time. And just being a stats leader, or a top 5 QB at the time makes someone an all time great. We need to remember that at a point in time, not that long ago, Tony Romo and Carson Palmer were top 5 QBs. Not to knock them at all, they were very good. Just not everyone can be an all time great. There is also a recent era, where you had Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, and Aaron Rodgers all more or less in their primes at the same time. This leaves really, really good QBs like Phillip Rivers, Matt Ryan and Matt Stafford as "secondary players" because they weren't quite as good. Who is to say that Josh Allen isn't Phillip Rivers to Mahomes' Peyton Manning? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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