Is Mahomes the only QB in his prime right now who is an all time great?

[Duluther]

3 hours ago, jonnguy2015 said:

In my opinion you have to be at least a HOFer/future HOFer to be considered an all time great and Vick is probably never getting there. Do agree Lamar has already accomplished more than Vick, but he also hasn't earned a bust in Canton if he retired tomorrow like Mahomes and Rodgers have

Boy, if Vick ever made the HoF… with his on-field resume (or lack there of)…

Lynn Swann would never receive slander for being in the HoF ever again.

[Soko]

11 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Do people consider Michael Vick to be an all-time great QB? It might be stretching it a tad, but personally I feel like when someone compares someone to Michael Vick, it's often a compliment.

Absolutely, without a doubt, unequivocally, no. Vick was an all-time great athlete at the QB position, an all-time great runner at the QB position, sure. Not an all-time QB. Not even close. Wouldn’t even touch the top 25, and that’s probably generous if we actually took the time to hash it out.

11 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Like, I don't know what else it would take other than team accomplishments to have people think he's a generational talent when he's already showing it.

Generational talent = / = all time great. Lamar’s rushing ability makes him the former, he hasn’t become the latter as of now.

[AkronsWitness]

On 11/10/2023 at 11:25 AM, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Do people consider Michael Vick to be an all-time great QB? It might be stretching it a tad, but personally I feel like when someone compares someone to Michael Vick, it's often a compliment.

And Lamar has shattered every Michael Vick record. I would say that already has made him all-time great. He's the most dominant rushing QB ever and he's still in his early prime. He's got a unanimous MVP and probably the most dominant overall QB season ever (even better than Peyton's 2013), and now this year with an actual balanced offense he's leading the league in completion % and being a very, very good passer.

Like, I don't know what else it would take other than team accomplishments to have people think he's a generational talent when he's already showing it.

Probably a contrarian take, but I think Vick might stand more of a chance than some believe. I believe players consideration for the HOF takes into account a lot of measures and not just raw stats. However, I feel like his off the field situation will probably hold him out in the end.

Vick was the blueprint to an extent for a lot of modern QBs in todays game to succeed. Im fully aware QBs before him piled up great rushing stats, but Vick in the modern era showed the NFL that you CAN put a supreme athlete at QB and it can work with their legs being their #1 threat. 15 years later we all of a sudden have every QB in the league who can run around in circles with their legs, almost as if its a prerequisite to play the position. CJ Stroud literally got knocked in his predraft process because he didnt run enough at the QB position.

Sort of like Steph Curry inspiring kids to chuck 900 3s and it changed the NBA game now with every prospect needing to be able to shoot--Vick had a similar impact in the NFL at QB. Every QB needs to be able to use their legs now to create outside of the pocket to varying degrees. Do you think we would have Lamar Jacksons, Cam Newtons, Josh Allens running around like crazy and taking off from the pocket if it wasnt for Mike Vick showing teams at the NCAA/NFL level that this type of play CAN work? I dont. Somebody always has to be first I guess but in this situation Mike Vick was that guy for this current generation of QBs in the NFL today.

Bottom line is for HOF consideration the question of: Can you tell the story of the NFL without that player. 

I dont think you can tell the story of the NFL without Mike Vicks name and the impact he had in regard to playstyle at QB that is still impacting draft prospects today. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by AkronsWitness

[AngusMcFife]

3 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

I dont think you can tell the story of the NFL without Mike Vicks name and the impact he had in regard to playstyle at QB that is still impacting draft prospects today. 

Why choose Vick rather than Randall Cunningham, though? 

[AkronsWitness]

7 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

Why choose Vick rather than Randall Cunningham, though? 

Because Cunningham was actually a good thrower of the football who also had duel threat capability. I feel like Vick until he got to PHI relied far more on his athleticism as his number 1 trait for his success on the field.

[seminoles1]

17 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Because Cunningham was actually a good thrower of the football who also had duel threat capability. I feel like Vick until he got to PHI relied far more on his athleticism as his number 1 trait for his success on the field.

So Vick would be the priority over Cunningham because he was a worse passer? Vick wasn't the archetype. He was maybe the best athlete, but that's not a reason to put someone in the Hall of Fame.

You can ABSOLUTELY tell the story of the NFL without Michael Vick. You also have to take into account he went to jail for 2 years and was banned from the league. Unless that's your reasoning for saying you can't tell the story of the NFL without Vick.

[AnAngryAmerican]

Mahomes is the only QB in his prime right now who already is an all-time great. There are others - Allen, Jackson, Hurts, Burrow - who are have the potential to become all time greats.

Of those four, I see Burrow having the best chance as (and I say this knowing he's ended two of his four seasons on IR) as I think he has best chance for longevity since he is less of a runner than the other three. Remember, in his two healthy seasons, Burrow has taken his team to the AFCCG and the Superbowl. 

[Soko]

On 11/13/2023 at 10:26 AM, AkronsWitness said:

Vick was the blueprint to an extent for a lot of modern QBs in todays game to succeed. Im fully aware QBs before him piled up great rushing stats, but Vick in the modern era showed the NFL that you CAN put a supreme athlete at QB and it can work with their legs being their #1 threat. 15 years later we all of a sudden have every QB in the league who can run around in circles with their legs, almost as if its a prerequisite to play the position. CJ Stroud literally got knocked in his predraft process because he didnt run enough at the QB position.

Sort of like Steph Curry inspiring kids to chuck 900 3s and it changed the NBA game now with every prospect needing to be able to shoot--Vick had a similar impact in the NFL at QB. Every QB needs to be able to use their legs now to create outside of the pocket to varying degrees. Do you think we would have Lamar Jacksons, Cam Newtons, Josh Allens running around like crazy and taking off from the pocket if it wasnt for Mike Vick showing teams at the NCAA/NFL level that this type of play CAN work? I dont. Somebody always has to be first I guess but in this situation Mike Vick was that guy for this current generation of QBs in the NFL today.

That’s WAY too much credit to Michael Vick. Dude went 61-51 in his career with no MVPs, no SBs, no SB appearances, 4 total Pro Bowls in 12 seasons, no All-Pros, and a 2-3 post season record - so what did he end up proving? That you can be a great athlete who largely isn’t good at passing, and you can stick around the NFL for a decade plus? He didn’t prove that those guys win championships or have HOF careers. Not that they can’t do either of those, obviously, but Vick wasn’t the one that went out and did it. 

[Malik]

Vick is an example of how someone can be an iconic player but not a Hall of Famer. Roger Maris was an iconic player but he is by no means a Hall of Famer.

[WizeGuy]

On 11/28/2023 at 12:06 PM, AnAngryAmerican said:

Mahomes is the only QB in his prime right now who already is an all-time great. There are others - Allen, Jackson, Hurts, Burrow - who are have the potential to become all time greats.

Of those four, I see Burrow having the best chance as (and I say this knowing he's ended two of his four seasons on IR) as I think he has best chance for longevity since he is less of a runner than the other three. Remember, in his two healthy seasons, Burrow has taken his team to the AFCCG and the Superbowl. 

I don't put much stock into that because his defense is by far the stingiest when they're in the playoffs compared to other elite QBs (Hurts is the exception) + he hasn't hit God mode like we've seen from Allen and Mahomes in the past.  Allen probably has a ring if he were on the Bengals in 2021. 

Kudos to the Bengals, though. They got their elite QB and a stingy defense to back him up, and I absolutely think Burrow could be a HoF QB + he's 2a/2b with Allen. I just think people take away credit from the Bengals defense and give too much credit to Burrow. 

[Tank4Drake]

On 10/21/2023 at 4:30 AM, CP3MVP said:

Aikman after year 6 had 2 superbowls and a SB MVP 

Roger was a SB champion, Led the nfl in passer rating twice and touchdowns once in his first 6 years. 

Aikman was carried by a great line, great supporting cast, great defense, and great coaching. Makes me cringe when anyone says he was good. He was slightly above average at best. 

[CP3MVP]

What do we think now